Sach4life Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Just pointing out that he hasn't gone back and repeated it. Dhoni has gone back to England and already improved from last time. The series is still open so don't draw any conclusions yet. We drew those series in England and Australia because our batsmen were in form and put up good scores. Not the case, now. If we lose after scoring 400+ then blame the captain. Not when we couldn't manage to cross 300 even once (last England series). When has Dhoni praised himself apart from maybe when he asked Ishanth to bowl short? The media goes overboard with it, not him. Why no leg spinners were picked? Name one leg spinner who can currently make the test team? Before you say Mishra, here's his test record the last time he played in England (2011) 81 overs, 3 wickets for 330 runs. Please don't say Dhoni is responsible for team selection. Is he? Do you have some proof that he picks the 23? The playing 11, maybe. It's all well and good saying something without backing it up with proof. Losing matches from great positions. Agree, happens because of his tendency to wait for the batsman to make a mistake rather than attack him. Why isn't Umesh Yadav in the playing 11? Aaron had a very good domestic season for Jharkhand, and was one of the most consistent bowlers in the Ranji Trophy. Shami is being persisted with because on his day he can be a matchwinner. He hasn't been in form but if he is dropped then you guys will complain that people aren't given enough of a run and dropped. Umesh had an average domestic season. Doesn't matter whether Ganguly got the chance to improve or not. The simple thing is the result that he produced when we toured overseas under him. I would be glad and change my stance a bit if we actually end up drawing or winning the current series. At this moment however, Dhoni has had an abysmal record overseas as a test captain. Worse than any other captain in the past decade. No matter how many excuses are put forward. If he can be regarded as our best odi captain, then there is no problem in him being regarded as our worst test captain overseas in the last decade as well. The match winners that we have got in the odis in the last 2-3 years are more than what we had before. The pitches are much easier now and the competition (especially australia) is not as deadly as it was before. All this doesn't stop people hailing Dhoni as the best captain in odis. Blame the batsmen,yes. But it is not like we have done great while bowling, in terms of field placements or team selections, either. Edited August 1, 2014 by sach4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sach4life Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Although i agree that under Ganguly, we became aggressive n better overseas, let's not get carried away here. From 2001-05, the best years of our legendary quad, we still didn't win a single series outside sub-continent except in Zimbabwe against its D side. In fact we had fallen to no.6 in the test rankings, n we were carrying a non-performing captain in Ganguly. It was only under Dravid tht we did in fact finally win in WI n then in England, Ganguly had nothing to do with it, except contributing to the loss against Bangladesh in WC2007 with his brain-dead selfish batting of 69 from 129 deliveries, that's his contribution to Dravid's captaincy. But we did drew in Australia and England. Nobody expected us to drew a test series in Australia at that time. One can't discredit those performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentassassin Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Actually the 4th test vs Australia , Australia played for a draw and Steve Waugh was out wich was not given out.. So we did play well....n Blaming Ganguly for loss in 2007 WC But the problem now is that no one is held accountable..Coach , Captain noone... We lost 8 away tests in a row without putting up a fight..Again bad performance in SA n NZ yet noone is accountable.. No changes... Ojha has been bowling really well for us in tests..Y is he not in the squad ?Ashwin and Jadeja have both failed in overseas conditions...Y not try Ojha.. n Jadeja is not worthy of batting at no 7 in tests.. The series is still not over..Hopefully we should come back and win atleast 1 more match.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sach4life Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Ya, those two were great performances, n i did give credit for those. But the bottom line is still pretty simple: Best years of our quad, 0 away series wins, no. 6 in the ranking by the time he was gone. So no, series wins under dravid had nothing to do with dada. But one can't simply put up test wins under Ganguly and Dhoni and say that there isn't difference between the two. It was under Ganguly only that we started winning overseas. He has been our best captain overall in tests imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 @chewy this was a good test wicket. Something always for the bowlers who bend their back, and became dry and uneven bounce on last day. We had sun shining for all 5 days, so this was not a typical English test match. Our bowlers were not penetrative enough, spinner bowled a negative line and got punished, and batsmen gave too much respect to Ali to help in settle into a nice rhythm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 But one can't simply put up test wins under Ganguly and Dhoni and say that there isn't difference between the two. It was under Ganguly only that we started winning overseas. He has been our best captain overall in tests imo. Stats say otherwise. Anyone can win matches when he has Sachin, kumble, Dravid, Sehwag etc. Compare that to with what we have currently and then say. Also, tell me one wicketkeeper batsman in India who had better record than Dhoni in past 15-20 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh1387 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Ganguly had Sachin, dravid and Laxman and himself. In every test at least 2 out of 4 will perform good and we would manage draws at least. Dravid has saved us so many matches. VVS has done the same. None in current team is capable of all that. Sent from my Nexus 4 Edited August 1, 2014 by harsh1387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sach4life Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Stats say otherwise. Anyone can win matches when he has Sachin, kumble, Dravid, Sehwag etc. Compare that to with what we have currently and then say. Also, tell me one wicketkeeper batsman in India who had better record than Dhoni in past 15-20 years? Both Sachin and dravid were there in 2011 in Australia and England. and now it is easier for people to say that the team is bad and that is why we are losing. There is no fault of Dhoni but when we win, then many are in front hailing Dhoni as the best captain. It goes both ways. You can't praise him and hail him as the best when we win and then say that he is not at fault and it is the team's fault when we lose. He IS our worst captain overseas in the last decade and stats prove that. Our performance in the last 3 years prove that. We are talking about his captaincy in overseas tests here. His performance as a batsman proves no point here. Edited August 1, 2014 by sach4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sach4life Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Ganguly had Sachin, dravid and Laxman and himself. In every test at least 2 out of 4 will perform good and we would manage draws at least. Dravid has saved us so many matches. VVS has done the same. None in current team is capable of all that. Sent from my Nexus 4 We had 3 out of 4 in 2011 in England and Australia. Edited August 1, 2014 by sach4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheK Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Dhoni can still be in team, but he should let go off captaincy, though seeing how egoistic he is, it will not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh1387 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 If Dhoni wasn't captain he would have been shown the door way back. As simple as that. Till the time Srini n Dhoni Nexus will be there our team performances will be same with an anamoly like Lords once a while. Sent from my Nexus 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sach4life Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Dhoni can still be in team, but he should let go off captaincy, though seeing how egoistic he is, it will not happen. If Dhoni wasn't captain he would have been shown the door way back. As simple as that. Till the time Srini n Dhoni Nexus will be there our team performances will be same with an anamoly like Lords once a while. Sent from my Nexus 4 If i am not wrong, one selector actually said that they were gonna sack him from captaincy after the australian tour but srinivasan stopped that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh1387 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 We had 3 out of 4 in 2011 in England and Australia. At the end of their careers. Not in their young stage. Sehwag, Ganguly, Sachin, dravid and, VVS all were relatively young during Gangulys captaincy. Let's be honest. No one in current time has the class of those people. Kohli showed glimpses and now he is struggling. Same with Pujara. Our bowling was always pathetic but now batting has become the same. Sent from my Nexus 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Both Sachin and dravid were there in 2011 in Australia and England. and now it is easier for people to say that the team is bad and that is why we are losing. There is no fault of Dhoni but when we win, then many are in front hailing Dhoni as the best captain. It goes both ways. You can't praise him and hail him as the best when we win and then say that he is not at fault and it is the team's fault when we lose. He IS our worst captain overseas in the last decade and stats prove that. Our performance in the last 3 years prove that. We are talking about his captaincy in overseas tests here. His performance as a batsman has prove no point here. Lol all were way past their prime. Shadow of themselves. Current team sucks. However, this test seems to be lost by complacency. Batsman played irresponsible shots, captain made silly decisions and bowlers looked worn out. Not to mention we lost our main man. He was lethal in 1st innings at Trentbridge and way better in 2nd innings at Lords. Other bowlers need to step up now. It was not a 550+ wicket at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheK Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Lol all were way past their prime. Shadow of themselves. Current team sucks. However, this test seems to be lost by complacency. Batsman played irresponsible shots, captain made silly decisions and bowlers looked worn out. Not to mention we lost our main man. He was lethal in 1st innings at Trentbridge and way better in 2nd innings at Lords. Other bowlers need to step up now. It was not a 550+ wicket at all. these guys are lost ib big cars, and bollywood babes. We thought Kohli form was lost only during IPL, but seems he has other things in mind then cricket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh1387 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 If i am not wrong, one selector actually said that they were gonna sack him from captaincy after the australian tour but srinivasan stopped that. I think it was Amarnath and he was promptly sacked as selector sooner after. Politics screwed this country and our unofficial national sports too. Sent from my Nexus 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh1387 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 these guys are lost ib big cars, and bollywood babes. We thought Kohli form was lost only during IPL, but seems he has other things in mind then cricket. I don't understand how can someone lose form in such a young age. All the legends started getting out of form after nearly a decade of international cricket which is understandable. And these 25 year Olds are getting out of form so frequently. Shows the problem is in their commitment towards the team. Sent from my Nexus 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sach4life Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 At the end of their careers. Not in their young stage. Sehwag, Ganguly, Sachin, dravid and, VVS all were relatively young during Gangulys captaincy. Let's be honest. No one in current time has the class of those people. Kohli showed glimpses and now he is struggling. Same with Pujara. Our bowling was always pathetic but now batting has become the same. Sent from my Nexus 4 Lol all were way past their prime. Shadow of themselves. Current team sucks. However, this test seems to be lost by complacency. Batsman played irresponsible shots, captain made silly decisions and bowlers looked worn out. Not to mention we lost our main man. He was lethal in 1st innings at Trentbridge and way better in 2nd innings at Lords. Other bowlers need to step up now. It was not a 550+ wicket at all. I know that. My main point was that keeping Dhoni as the test captain is not helping us in any way or form. It is better to start fresh with a new captain. As far as our current team goes, i just see the same will and passion for the game as i used to see in old players. All i see now is the run towards money, fame and glamour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheK Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't understand how can someone lose form in such a young age. All the legends started getting out of form after nearly a decade of international cricket which is understandable. And these 25 year Olds are getting out of form so frequently. Shows the problem is in their commitment towards the team. Sent from my Nexus 4 Guess everyone has the right to be in cars and be with chicks, but if the focus shifts that side it is a dangerous proposition. Kohli has time to fix it, i would take his outside off as a weakness, but what happened in IPL? It was in india, 14 matches there, and 6 innings now. So a total of 20 bad innings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentassassin Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Wow Jadeja fined 50 % and Anderson let off.. Anderson found not guilty.. Are you fkin kidding me ICC.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts