[PlayStation vs Xbox vs Nintendo thread]

 

Let me add a casual gamer’s POV to this. 

If you were to ask me now which console would I keep between the series X and PS5  if I could keep only one , it would be a difficult choice but I will probably choose the PS5.

 

I am likely a lot older than many if not most of the members here.

Have been a casual gamer for a very long time - Owned mostly consoles - from the Atari 2600 in the 80s to the NES/SNES in the 90s.
Shifted loyalties to the PS in the late 90s and have stuck to PS for all gens (incl PSP and vita)

So largely a PS loyalist - except for a couple of brief dabbles with Nintendo (Wii) and PC gaming in the mid 2000s (which I dropped as I guess I was spending more timing optimising fps with drivers and settings than actually playing games)

 

Someone I know strongly recommended game pass to me so I decided to try out an Xbox for the first time . Got a series S to try , liked it so got an X instead.

 

Let me first say that game pass is awesome. I have lost count of the number of games I have spent good money on after researching thoroughly but could not play beyond the first 30-60 mins.

Gamepass largely alleviates that issue. 

 

In addition, I love the quick resume . I have limited time on hand and usually play in short bursts.

PS5 standby helps with reducing wait times but is quite limited as against quick resume.

 

However I can’t help but feel that the Xbox is geared more towards the more dedicated gaming aficionados.

Most Xbox exclusives I have tried so far seem to be more inclined towards competitive gamers or players who enjoy grinding.
And while there is no denying that games Like Halo and Gears 5 are masterpieces in their own right.

 

But casual gamers/ semi-serious gamers tend to gravitate  towards the action/adventure genre and the PS5 has Xbox beat on that regard.

My top5 games of the last decade are all from this very genre viz TLOU2, HFW, TLOU , HZD and Uncharted 4 (In that order) - and I am yet to find games of the same calibre on the Xbox .

I am currently playing Mass effect 2 (LE) on the Xbox (yes, I missed it when it first came out) but TBH I didn’t really need an XB for it.

 

On a side rant, Xbox really seems to be missing a trick with the lack of true LAN remote play - something that is important for a lot of casual / older gamers.

And this may be minor - but the dual sense feels a lot more alive than the Xb controller (adaptive triggers and better rumble) 

If there is anything I am missing, would be happy to be set right

 

[XBOX Series S/X remote play tested - Thoughts and questions]

25 minutes ago, hsk_colossus said:

blasphemy!

 

I do like the X.. thats what I am keeping as well - just a bit disappointed by the remote play issue ..

Here's a shot of the beauty, the beast and the monster together .. Thought I may as well take one for posterity's sake before one of them goes away ..
and if you notice closely, there is a little gem from a different era tucked away under the trio as well 

[img]https://i.imgur.com/wnR6mkM.jpg[/img]

 

Edit: Just realized image tags dont work on this board.. or am i missing something?

[XBOX Series S/X remote play tested - Thoughts and questions]

15 minutes ago, playstationdude said:

Thats just a subjective opinion though.

 

Higher resolution (pixel count) lets animators add a greater level of detail to characters and environment, its not just about being sharper. This is visibly clearer in games such as Rift apart, Horizon fw, ff7 remake, returnal, etc. 

I never said it's 100% objective - I was just sharing my subjective opinion

[XBOX Series S/X remote play tested - Thoughts and questions]

24 minutes ago, playstationdude said:

Not true at all. Games benefit a lot from higher resolutions if you have the right display. There is a noticeable difference when playing games such as Horizon FW, FF7 remake etc in performance vs resolution mode on a good 4k tv (oled, qled etc)

For what it's worth, I currently use QLED, OLED and mini-LED displays in addition to a couple of traditional LCDs.

Also, you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I said "huge improvement" and not "improvement"

 

For videos . 800x600 looks bad, 1280x720 looks just about acceptable, 1920x1080 looks decent, 1440p looks good and 2160p is better - standard rule of diminishing returns

However, beyond 1440p (or arguably even 1080p), you get greater visual improvements with HDR than say adding further resolution

 

In other words, if i had to choose between watching a movie in 1440p HDR over 2160p SDR, I would prefer the former by a wide margin - although 2160p HDR would naturally be an even more preferred choice.

 

For games, the situation is further flattened. Most games today seem be have a far higher level of sharpening applied during the rendering than what you would see in any normal Video. It is unfortunate and annoying - but it is what it is - and not something you and I can change.

What that means for the end user is that this further reduces the perceived difference between 1080, 1440 and 2160p  .

Do note that I am not saying there is no difference , just that it is limited difference that is noticeable if you pixel peep but not so much while you are actually engrossed in a game. 

[XBOX Series S/X remote play tested - Thoughts and questions]

37 minutes ago, quixote_1989 said:

 

The fact that this fiasco made you buy a Series X is a blessing in disguise. Get rid of the S asap.

LOL

Not too sure about that though.
Had it been my primary console, the X would have been made sense.

But the S is a remarkably good VFM device - really low resolutions aside, I don't see a huge improvement going beyond 1080p   (specifically games, videos are a different story)
To my surprise, the S and X seem to be hitting similar frame rates (I can't play @30  but anything 60 or more is fine)

 

Given the size, cost and capabilities, the S is quite remarkable for what its worth

[XBOX Series S/X remote play tested - Thoughts and questions]

As a followup on this , thought I might as well share my feedback on XB series remote play performance.

As mentioned earlier, I tend to use remote play extensively within the house , esp late at night to play from the bedroom rather than sitting in front of the living room TV.

Unfortunately the story is not particularly positive.

 

1) Android Tab - 3/10 tested on S7+.  Low resolution-probably 800x600 at low bit rates with bad macroblocking. Only positive is that controller latency is really nice and low

 

2) ipad OS - 3/10 tested on ipad pro M1. Same as above. Low resolution with low bit rates . No HDR either. Controller latency continues to be low

 

3) Windows laptop-  7/10 - tested on a i5 10th gen Ultrabook. This yielded a far more usable result. Resolution and bit rate were definitely in usable territory but certainly not as good as PS5. Controller latency was really nice again.

 

4) Mac OS - MS has not released a client   

 

 

I am not a long term XB user but from what I can gather, Up until XB one, LAN remote play used to be routed locally (as it should be) 

With Series S/X, they seem to have made some changes where either the entire remote play traffic is being routed over the Internet or at a very minimum 

 

For the testing, consoles were on wired gigabit, clients were on 866/866 mbps wifi. Internet speed was 800+ mbps up/down

Internet test on console  flagged latency in amber (60ms +)  as the test would have happened with xbox cloud servers presumably in Singapore

However, it appears that the end client app uses the numbers above to determine the bit rate / resolution for game streaming and drops the resolution to avoid frame drops or excessive lag.

Unfortunately it does not seem to account for the fact that the client is on a LAN with  near 0 latency.

 

As a side effect of this fiasco, I also ended up buying a series X as I initially assumed the poor quality of streaming is because of Series S and now will have to go through the hassle of selling the S (and taking a loss  )

 

[Horizon Forbidden West]

Nothing that hasn’t already been said before - but add me to the list of folks who are loving this game.

 

I am not a big fan of melee or chaotic combat and have left acclaimed games like GoW , control and spiderman  midway .
I am however a huge fan of 3rd person ranged combat - and does this game deliver on that!

Graphics and combat fluidity are nice upgrades over HZW - but the real upgrade is on the side quests.

What used to be largely boring and tedious in HZW (and best left alone) is now turning out to be almost as fun as the main quest on this.

[PS5 Remote play tested across platforms - Thoughts and couple of questions]

2 hours ago, blitzkreiig said:

Have you tested it on PS4/ PS4 Pro by any chance

I used to use RP with PS4 earlier..
FInished quite a few games as well.. But while it was just about usable with ps4, it seems to come very close to direct play , at least on same platforms with ps5

[PS5 Remote play tested across platforms - Thoughts and couple of questions]

Just an update after the 4.5 upgrade for PS remote play app. I am currently using it for Horizon Forbidden west

 

• The iPad continues to be the best candidate for remote play. The resolution is excellent, no macro blocks noticeable. HDR works but with minor caveats. The only (and big ) bummer is lack of haptics and adaptive triggers
• The Mac and Windows app have gone down the drain. Poor resolution and low frame rates are effectively making it unusable (this with gigabit link to console and 650-866 mbps link speed to PC/mac)... Haptics and adaptive triggers work though... (I can try with wired gbe link in case anyone is interested - but if I have to sit at a pre-defined place for remote play, might as well use the console directly) 
• Tried Android with android 12 this time - total facepalm moment.. Aloy starting spinning around and shot out all her ammo. It appears the button mapping for dualsense is just plain wrong on android. Makes you wonder what kind of testing do they do 

[Horizon Forbidden West]

24 minutes ago, 0verlord said:

I used to play 30-60 fps games

 

then with XSX, I was able to play 120fps games especially competitive multiplayer in Halo Infinite at 120fps. 120fps is so much more delightfully responsive than 30 and 60fps, it feels like a game changing improvement 

 

2nd, 30fps may lead to headaches if there are frame pacing issues in the game, eg Fromsoft games. But games from other devs which have been properly optimized including ps exclusives like hfw, at 30fps have stable frame times which make 30fps perfectly fine for playing, without headaches 

You probably misread my post then.

I think I had specifically mentioned in my original post that 120 is helpful largely for competitive gamers - Like yourself as you mentioned.

 

For everyone else, 30-> 60 is a far substantial jump than 60->120

 

PS: I use a large mix of devices and computers that range between 60-144 on a daily basis. 

60+ is a subtle improvement although an improvement nonetheless. Having said that, I dont really miss it much if I have to use a 60hz device/system.
However, There are times when I have to work /use displays at 30hz -and that's when  it gets really difficult to manage.

 

30vs 60  is anyway very easy to test for by pretty much anyone.. Just drop your PC/laptop display settings to 30hz, try working on it for a few hours and see how your eyes and head fare

[Horizon Forbidden West]

6 hours ago, 0verlord said:

This is wrong. With good frame pacing, 30fps feels as stable as 60fps, no headaches 

 

This is also wrong. I have done many A-B comparisons between 60 and 120. 120 is significantly more responsive and your gaming performance gets a lot of boost at 120

 

30 and 60 are both terrible compared to the super responsive and fluid 120 but 120 demands too many sacrifices visually 

Not sure I understand.

 

Are you saying that 30->60 is a small/negligible boost 

while 60->120 is a far more noticeable improvement?

 

 

 

[Horizon Forbidden West]

On 2/15/2022 at 11:50 AM, WhatsInTheName said:

Depends on the game too. I was trying to play RnC Rift apart in 30 fps after completing it in 60 fps once and I couldn't go past the stadium level. It was not a good experience for me. Same with Dishonored (I know an old game, but still). Couldnt play at all in 30 fps. When the game got fps boosted, I tried it again and its just a joy to play. HZD was also okayish in 30, but in 60 it was a much better experience. FH5 at 30 fps was pretty good though. Didnt feel the need to go to 60 in that one. 

 

full disclosure though - I am unable to notice the jump from 60 to 120. 30 to 60 is much more visible to my eyes. Makes me think that I would be a poor contender for buying PC to run games higher than 120 too. 

Same exact boat.

Actually 30 vs 60 difference can be validated by practically everyone here.

Just drop the refresh rate on your laptop/PC to 30hz and try using the PC as you normally do- My guess is that for 9/10 people, the experience will be annoying and may even cause a headache after an hour or so.

 

Playing Character movements in HZD are relatively slower as compared to say R&C or even TLOU2 so that does make the 30hz variant acceptable but there is no way I am playing HFW in 30 just for the sake of a graphical boost.

 

60vs 120 is similar in some ways the same but the difference is far more subtle in comparison.
Noticeable if you pay attention but not enough to make a big difference for non competitive/casual gamers

[The TV Decision Making Thread]

1 hour ago, playstationdude said:

I actually use my oled in a very brightly lit room, most times even shades open. No problem at all.

It's not about it being a problem.

Most QLEDs also don't have any major issues with recreating deep blacks - However even the best QLED won't come anywhere near the almost absolute zero level that an OLED will do for blacks.

This delta in performance will be most noticeable in dark rooms.

 

Simillarly, OLEDs will look good even in bright rooms - with a peak brightness of say 400 nits

But that will pale in comparison with the sustained 700-1000 that QLEDs can pump out.   

This delta in performance will be most noticeable in bright rooms

 

Thus in effect, a good QLED will look better than a good OLED in a bright room (relatively) and vice versa .  ((Do note this is true only for upper tier QLEDs - the entry level QLEDs have peaks similar to OLEDs but blacks are not as good)

Keep in mind that neither will look bad/ problematic in either scenarios.

 

 

[The TV Decision Making Thread]

30 minutes ago, playstationdude said:

If you plan on using a next gen console and dont mind spending 1.2-1.3 l , get an oled eyes closed.

 

Else qleds are also pretty good.

It isn't that straighforward unfortunately.

 

If the room is a dedicated room/ ambient lighting can be controlled then OLED is the better choice - the zero level blacks will yield better perceived contrast than   QLEDs

 

However If the TV is going into a Living room (or any other room) that's brightly lit - and you don't want to/ cannot control the ambient light - then QLED is the better choice due to the much higher peak brightness - which in turn will yield better perceived contrast

(mathematically the OLED will still have a higher contrast ratio on the basis of the screen alone - but the environment will make it look dull and pale in comparison)

 

 

Hopefully mini LED TVs should give us the best of both worlds at a reasonable price once they become more mainstream

[PS5 Remote play tested across platforms - Thoughts and couple of questions]

Remote play may not be a much used feature by many users- but for some of us (especially the older folks) , it is an absolute must have - specifically for LAN play.

In fact it is thanks to remote play that I have been able to keep playing - The only real time I get to game is late at night after the kid goes to sleep and its a lot easier to continue on a remote device in the same room instead of switching on the TV. In fact most games I have finished in recent years have been completed 75% over remote play

 

Over the last 1 month, I have been testing / using RP on PS5 extensively with all major platforms including Android, iOS, iPad OS , Windows and Mac OS 

 

The good news is that Remote Play has improved  drastically over the PS4. I saw very few instances of frame drops/ latency compared to the old gen unit (keep in mind that I do not have a PS4 Pro so this comparison is purely against the original fat PS4)

 

The bad news is that the resolution is capped at 1080p although HDR support is there - and works as expected.

In addition, the UX varies considerably by platform.

The game used for testing was TLOU2 which runs at 4K 60fps HDR on the PS5

 

iOS (7/10)- Works well with both DS4 and Dualsense. Both devices are recognized correctly. Frame rates are fluid and while there is no way to actually check the fps, it appears to be definitely close to 60 fps than 30 fps. 

 

Mac OS (4/10)- The app seems unoptimized. The frame rates are inconsistent with regular choppiness. The only saving grace is that the DUalsense is recognized correctly over both BT and wired connection

 

iPad OS (9/10)- This is my preferred method as the experience is almost as good as local play. The The rendering quality is fantastic and  framerates are very close to 60fps or probably hitting  60. No choppiness/ frame drops at all - And HDR works too! 

Controller latency is there but its small enough to work very well for arcade games as well as Third Person shooters like TLOU2 . May however be an issue with FPS games.

The only bummer is that for some reason, Dualsense is not recognized with a wired (USB-C to USB-C) connection and works only via BT. The DS4 otoh works fine wired as well.

 

Windows (7/10) - Very good experience. Framerates are solid and latency is at par with ipad.

However I could not get HDR for some reason - and the controller works only in wired mode.

 

Android (1/10) - Caveat - this could be an issue with my device as Android 10 devices are supposed to support the PS controllers. Unfortunately I could not get the PS remote play app on  Android 10 phone to recognize either the PS4 or PS5 controller in either wireless or wired mode.

I did however try a third party (paid) app called PSplay. The app worked as expected with DS4 but I could not get the DS5 to work. I did not test enough to have a view on how the framerate/ rendering quality/ experience is

 

Two Questions:

a) Would really appreciate if someone with a dualsense and ipad (any model with USB C port) could try and check if their controller works in wired mode. While the wireless mode is fine, the Dualsense cannot retain two BT connections which means I need to pair/ unpair each time I want to use it with the ipad.

b) Android 10 users - Are you able to get a Dualsense or even DS4 working with remote play?