Random stuff from the internet (not news)

[radicaldude]

17 minutes ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

 

I agree, but an outright blacklisting ? No warning ? No strikes ? 

It's basically my way or the highway. And that's pretty immature. 

 

Im sure his issue would be taken up at consular levels. 

[KunjanPSD]

47 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

I can understand your sentiments. But we have to realize that the said person is not an Indian citizen. Hence article 19 ( freedom of speech and experession ) does not apply to him. Visa comes with riders. Every nation has certain riders. 

 

 

With that said, the govt should not be so sensitive to gag every dissenting voice. 

I understand your point but what troubles me is how fast we as a nation are moving (being moved) away from the ideas on which the country was built upon.

 

We are already seeing increased surveillance on social media where posts are being taken down and people are being blocked if they speak against the acting govt. while not spreading misinformation.

The threat to privacy via the new regulations.

 

You can't deny that the right to speech we hold today is not nearly as concrete as it is supposed to be.

So I am not at all confident about the future, there might be a time when saying anything against the acting govt. will a crime.

Hopefully I am wrong.

[radicaldude]

7 hours ago, KunjanPSD said:

I understand your point but what troubles me is how fast we as a nation are moving (being moved) away from the ideas on which the country was built upon.

 

We are already seeing increased surveillance on social media where posts are being taken down and people are being blocked if they speak against the acting govt. while not spreading misinformation.

The threat to privacy via the new regulations.

 

You can't deny that the right to speech we hold today is not nearly as concrete as it is supposed to be.

So I am not at all confident about the future, there might be a time when saying anything against the acting govt. will a crime.

Hopefully I am wrong.

 

 

When it comes to Bonafide citizens, yes. But I believe aliens should take their visa rules seriously. No matter what he says/how true it may be, he should have not crossed the boundaries as defined by the laws relating to his visa. 

 

 

I remember many foreign nationals were deported when they participated in anti CAA  protests in 2019. 

[KnackChap]

Do we even know if he was denied because of it (protest)? It's just an assumption everyone is running with right now. It could mainly be because of multiple pak visas on his passport or maybe he ruffled a few BIG feathers when he made those scam videos of his. 

[radicaldude]

1 hour ago, KnackChap said:

Do we even know if he was denied because of it (protest)? It's just an assumption everyone is running with right now. It could mainly be because of multiple pak visas on his passport or maybe he ruffled a few BIG feathers when he made those scam videos of his. 

 

 

 

 

This is the reason apparently

 

 

 

[KunjanPSD]

2 hours ago, radicaldude said:

 

 

When it comes to Bonafide citizens, yes. But I believe aliens should take their visa rules seriously. No matter what he says/how true it may be, he should have not crossed the boundaries as defined by the laws relating to his visa. 

 

 

I remember many foreign nationals were deported when they participated in anti CAA  protests in 2019. 

I agree with that but the way things have been going on, it's just one thing after the another.

I don't feel as safe to exercise my right to speech under the current regime.

I hope that it gets better.

[KunjanPSD]

28 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

 

 

 

 

This is the reason apparently

 

 

 

Actually the problem is when Karl tried to contact the embassy, there was no concrete communication and many officials apparently taunted him about taking part in anti-CAA protests. 

I am not saying that he didn't break the visa rules but it's quite possible that the situation was aggravated because of other factors.

 

[Bird Bird Bird]

1 hour ago, radicaldude said:

 

 

 

 

This is the reason apparently

 

 

 

 

Not really. They couldn't specify what businesses he was running. Maybe they are referring to his YouTube income ? Will it be counted as Indian business ? Why can't be show it as NZ's business, filing tax in his native country ?

There's no clarity. It's pretty clear that the prime reason was participation in anti CAA protests, coupled with Pak visits. 

Going after big time scammers shouldn't ruffle enough feathers to ban his visa, but I might be wrong. Sab scammers hi to hai politics main. 

Whatever be the reason, this non transparent blacklist of a person who's social media following is quite huge is sending a clear message - don't get involved in Indian matters. 

 

[playstationdude]

25 minutes ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

 

Not really. They couldn't specify what businesses he was running. Maybe they are referring to his YouTube income ? Will it be counted as Indian business ? Why can't be show it as NZ's business, filing tax in his native country ?

There's no clarity. It's pretty clear that the prime reason was participation in anti CAA protests, coupled with Pak visits. 

Going after big time scammers shouldn't ruffle enough feathers to ban his visa, but I might be wrong. Sab scammers hi to hai politics main. 

Whatever be the reason, this non transparent blacklist of a person who's social media following is quite huge is sending a clear message - don't get involved in Indian matters. 

 

Yup, the way things are going it seems we can soon say bye bye to any sort of free speech

Btw I don't think this is gonna end well. People have increasingly started getting uneasy with crap like this

Edited July 10, 2021 by playstationdude

[Bird Bird Bird]

8 minutes ago, playstationdude said:

Btw I don't think this is gonna end well. People have increasingly started getting uneasy with crap like this

 

Hah ! I think this is exactly what people want. Just check Twitter/SM (since his main following is via SM). Tons of people abusing him for the anti CAA protests, and calling him names etc. Supporters are FAR less. 

[Petey]

Just now, Bird Bird Bird said:

 

Hah ! I think this is exactly what people want. Just check Twitter/SM (since his main following is via SM). Tons of people abusing him for the anti CAA protests, and calling him names etc. Supporters are FAR less. 

 

Pretty much this. The comments on his video and on Twitter are also filled with vitriol.

If being a travel vlogger is now illegal in this country... well... yikes.

[roun90]

16 hours ago, KunjanPSD said:

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/karl-rock-youtube-india-visa-blacklist-7396764/

 

Apparently, he was blacklisted because he protested against CAA and spoke about how Govt. dropped the ball against Corona.

Whatever the case might be but this is a newer low our govt. has stooped to.

 

Highly political issue, but since everyone is discussing it - I'll add my 2 cents. It's not a Freedom of Speech issue. Look India is a sovereign nation. As such, it has rules, which applies to any other foreign nation.

 

1) Doing business on a tourist visa - In any other country, including Europe and US, it's grounds for automatic deportation. AFAIK, in US, any activity that generates money is considered business and not allowed unless you have work/business permit. There are no "Strikes". It's simple "Get Out", even in the so called "Developed Nations". He's making videos of India, in India and accepting income in Indian rupees - yep, sounds like he's getting income from India.

 

2) The guy has visited Pakistan, which in Indian case at least, is grounds for disqualification. Think of this - an Indian national visits Iran, North Korea and/or Venezuela before entering the US. How long do you think his visa will be welcomed? I would be surprised if you would be allowed to put 1 step out of the airport (Unless it's to catch the deportation plane or go to prison). Remember David Headley anyone? He had a valid India visa on US passport as well, and was a traveler to Pakistan and Dubai. This is a question of national security, and not a joke. I at least will not allow people's lives to be compromised for a Youtuber's so called "Right of Expression" (Being a MH/Mumbai resident since birth, I remember what it was like pre-2012 and in 2008. I don't want those days back, thank you.)

 

3) Despite marrying an Indian, he is not an Indian national. AFAIK, he has to renounce NZ citizenship. As a foreigner in a sovereign nation - he has to follow the rules if he wants to stay. Simple as that.

 

I might not like the current govt. at all. But that does not mean allowing all foreigners to do whatever they want, breaking laws. It's the same case for all countries AFAIK.

Edited July 10, 2021 by roun90

[Petey]

22 minutes ago, roun90 said:

1) Doing business on a tourist visa - In any other country, including Europe and US, it's grounds for automatic deportation. AFAIK, in US, any activity that generates money is considered business and not allowed unless you have work/business permit. Making videos of India, in India and accepting income in rupees - yep, sounds like income from India.

 

I think this is at most a gray zone and an extremely slippery slope, assuming that his primary revenue source is YouTube and online media. If the primary audience of my YouTube channel is Japanese and with content about Japan but earning in INR from YouTube India and/or USD on Patreon, and I subsequently decide to move to Japan on a student visa, do I have to take down the channel simply because I am physically in Japan on a visa? If I film content in Japan, am I allowed to edit and upload videos of it while I'm in Japan, or only when I'm back in India? If the answer is no to both, then is the Government prepared to give me a business visa instead, or should travel vlogging be just left to die?

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it's absolutely not black and white when it comes to online businesses. And in most cases, countries do not care about tourist vloggers. Clearly, the visa office has either decided to muddy this complicated matter, or the forces that be have intervened because there is more to it, and political interests are involved. If I remember correctly, his father in law is a politician. He also must have ruffled quite a few feathers with the takedowns of scam call centers. There's more to this that we simply don't know about, and possibly never will.

Edited July 10, 2021 by petey

[KnackChap]

Think his FiL is a small politician of some local party. Don't think he carries much weight anyways. Unless you know what business he was doing and earning, we can only speculate right now. Is it just YouTube money or something else only time will tell. Also, a bunch of foreign bollywood bg dancers and ipl cheerleaders are routinely denied visa or deported back because of the same reason. 

[roun90]

16 minutes ago, petey said:

 

I think this is at most a gray zone and an extremely slippery slope, assuming that his primary revenue source is YouTube and online media. If the primary audience of my YouTube channel is Japanese and with content about Japan but earning in INR from YouTube India and/or USD on Patreon, and I subsequently decide to move to Japan on a student visa, do I have to take down the channel simply because I am physically in Japan on a visa? If I film content in Japan, am I allowed to edit and upload videos of it while I'm in Japan, or only when I'm back in India?

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it's absolutely not black and white when it comes to online businesses. And in most cases, countries do not care about tourist vloggers. Clearly, the visa office has either decided to muddy this complicated matter, or the forces that be have intervened because there is more to it, and political interests are involved. If I remember correctly, his father in law is a politician. He also must have ruffled quite a few feathers with the takedowns of scam call centers. There's more to this that we simply don't know about.

 

It's just my opinion, and I'm in no way an expert in law or visa norms - but it's a question of staying. You go to US, stay there on a "Tourist Visa/Vacation Visa", continuously make videos and earn income from US Citizens in US $$s, you will not be allowed to stay AFAIK. You take videos, come back to your home country, upload it and earn income - that is fine.

 

You should watch shows like UK Border Police/US Border Police sometimes. They have kicked people out for reasons you might deem absurd.

 

Fact of the matter is this - as a foreign national, none of the country's rights and duties applies to you, other than the International Human Rights mandated by the UN and all such stuff (This is the case for all countries, not just India). You can stay here, but you have to follow rules, If you don't - the country reserves every right to kick you out.

 

My other point - that of national security still stands. No matter how "Well Liked" or a "Celebrity" or "He's definitely a good guy" people might think - countries have their own intelligence and reserve the right to cancel visa or kick someone out they think might be a threat. Remember my example of someone visiting NK/Venezuela and then going to US?  A US born citizen can do that. A foreigner on a US Visa will have it cancelled and he will be deported or arrested and interrogated (before being deported).

 

IMO a country is not a playground and visiting is not a sovereign right. He was here, he should have known and followed the rules.

Edited July 10, 2021 by roun90

[Bird Bird Bird]

Just now, KnackChap said:

Think his FiL is a small politician of some local party. Don't think he carries much weight anyways. Unless you know what business he was doing and earning, we can only speculate right now. Is it just YouTube money or something else only time will tell. Also, a bunch of foreign bollywood bg dancers and ipl cheerleaders are routinely denied visa or deported back because of the same reason. 

 

FIL is with Congress. 

[KnackChap]

2 minutes ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

 

FIL is with Congress. 

That's also a small local party. 

[dylanjosh]

Even if he broke some rule, there's a case to be made for highly selective rule applying. Seems like the hammer comes down hard on people speaking against the govt compared to pro govt even when similar rules are broken

[roun90]

6 minutes ago, dylanjosh said:

Even if he broke some rule, there's a case to be made for highly selective rule applying. Seems like the hammer comes down hard on people speaking against the govt compared to pro govt even when similar rules are broken

 

Maybe? Maybe not? We heard about this guy because he's famous, and has ties in politics. Fact is - tons of people are deported from each and every country every day. It doesn't make the news - because it's not news-worthy.

 

You really should watch the Border Police Documentaries (They have one for almost all Western Countries I think). Deportations are a dime a dozen. It will most probably be the case here as well. We just don't hear about it, because most people are not famous and don't have a dedicated following.

Edited July 10, 2021 by roun90

[dante77]

Isn't Akshay Kumar doing the same thing? Is he not doing any business here?

I hope this discussion don't go political from here on lol