Microsoft posts record sales for second quarter.

[Aftrunner]

What does that even mean? Is that like a comeback of sorts?

 

Have you played with Natal? :|

 

I dont think we should let little things like "not having used it" or "not knowing hardware specs" or even "not knowing how/which games will support it" come in the way of passing judgment.

[HundredProofSam]

^^I wont even bother cause thats nonsense. No offense.

You think it's nonsense and you think it's laughable. You wanna explain why you think Natal is technically better? Coz you obviously seem to think it is.

 

Or are you just gonna play it safe and come here and bump the the thread if I'm proved wrong and conveniently forget about this thread if I'm right?

 

 

 

peace

[Gautam]

As far as I know Natal does capture video at 30 fps. But ain't that enough? TVs, DVDs all playback at 30 fps. Also, I think Microsoft is smarter than trying to market Natal as a platform form FPSs. They are squarely aiming it at the casual audience.

 

For me, from purely a technology standpoint Natal seems like a real breakthrough. It captures motion in 3 dimensions with a single camera!! Something that till now required a motion capture studio with guys in spandex attached with ping pong balls. It has an infrared camera that captures the heat map and the software does rest of the processing. Not to mention the facial tracking and the voice recognition.

 

It's not the kind of cutting edge stuff you'd normally expect from Microsoft. I'm not sure if it's best suited for games, but that sure is the best and fastest way to get the tech in millions of homes. Where they go from there is anyone's guess...

[Aftrunner]

You think it's nonsense and you think it's laughable. You wanna explain why you think Natal is technically better? Coz you obviously seem to think it is.

 

Or are you just gonna play it safe and come here and bump the the thread if I'm proved wrong and conveniently forget about this thread if I'm right?

peace

 

So you havent used it, you dont know the exact hardware specs, you dont know which games will support it or how etc. But you are confident that a gadget released in 2010 is worse than one released in 2005 (?) simply because of the FPS theory? Yeah that makes sense to me.

 

I cant even believe you are arguing with this insane theory, are you even reading what you are writing? So if some games ran at 60 FPS on the PS2 and some other games ran at 30 FPS on the PS3, the PS2 is technically superior to the PS3?

[HundredProofSam]

As far as I know Natal does capture video at 30 fps. But ain't that enough? TVs, DVDs all playback at 30 fps. Also, I think Microsoft is smarter than trying to market Natal as a platform form FPSs. They are squarely aiming it at the casual audience.

 

So if some games ran at 60 FPS on the PS2 and some other games ran at 30 FPS on the PS3, the PS2 is technically superior to the PS3?

There is a difference between input and output FPS. 30fps here is the input FPS.

 

Think about the action of a baseball pitch or a golf swing and how fast it is. A camera that captures at 30fps will not capture that motion as smoothly as one that does it at a higher FPS. And when you have a camera that's trying to track a bunch of different motions rather than just one (like with the Wii), it only complicates matters. It's what the camera captures that decides how the game controls. Whatever processing is done later is reliant on what the camera captures first.

 

PS: And I'm not passing judgement here; I'm making a prediction based on everything I've seen and read. I'll pass judgement when I actually use it.

 

PSS: It's nice getting Afty all riled up

 

 

 

peace

[Aftrunner]

GODDAMNIT STOP WINDING ME UP!

[Gautam]

There is a difference between input and output FPS. 30fps here is the input FPS.

 

Think about the action of a baseball pitch or a golf swing and how fast it is. A camera that captures at 30fps will not capture that motion as smoothly as one that does it at a higher FPS. And when you have a camera that's trying to track a bunch of different motions rather than just one (like with the Wii), it only complicates matters. It's what the camera captures that decides how the game controls. Whatever processing is done later is reliant on what the camera captures first.

 

PS: And I'm not passing judgement here; I'm making a prediction based on everything I've seen and read. I'll pass judgement when I actually use it.

 

PSS: It's nice getting Afty all riled up

peace

 

 

The 360 is not going to wait for the camera to capture all 30 frames to start processing. The processing will happen for each frame. And it is very feasible that the software is intelligent enough to simulate human motion based on captured frames to increase the fidelity of the output.

 

Bottom line is that there are too many unknowns to predict that it's a sure fail. What we do know is that this stuff is not science fiction. There have been enough demos to confirm that the basics are there. MS needs to work and refine the system and launch a complete product. We don't want another RROD scenario with failing camera lenses and sh*t.

[CarbonCore]

I wonder how many guys actually predicted that Wii is gonna be runaway success this gen.

[achilles]

It's not the kind of cutting edge stuff you'd normally expect from Microsoft.

 

 

sometimes.. things are funny. on another note, exclusivity sucks.

 

 

/snatches the crayons from ank and makes a $ sign on the wall.

[HundredProofSam]

The 360 is not going to wait for the camera to capture all 30 frames to start processing. The processing will happen for each frame.

True, but it isn't going to process more frames than the camera can capture either.

 

And you're right, there are too many unknowns. But here's the reason for my skepticism. It's an example from the games I've played using the PS Eye. Now the programming of the Natal software may well be able to eliminate this, but its just an example of the issues that can come with using the body as the controller.

 

There's a puzzle game called Trials of Topoq that requires to move a ball from A to B by raising the ground level below it using your hands. Now what happens is, when you move your palms to raise the ground, your elbows and your shoulders move as well and the camera will pick those movements up. If someone walks across the room behind you, that gets picked up as well. So while you may want to raise a part of the ground with your palm, the movement of your forearm will inadvertently move another part of the ground.

 

These issues don't come up when you have a definite point of reference like the Wii controller.

 

 

 

peace

[Keyofx]

I wish we had more decent non-fanatic people on the forum.

[CarbonCore]

I wanted to let that slip

[achilles]

Go look for a job in the White House

 

boy.. the sword is out today

 

I wanted to let that slip

 

 

with ms.. no chance

[godspeed4476]

There's a puzzle game called Trials of Topoq that requires to move a ball from A to B by raising the ground level below it using your hands. Now what happens is, when you move your palms to raise the ground, your elbows and your shoulders move as well and the camera will pick those movements up. If someone walks across the room behind you, that gets picked up as well. So while you may want to raise a part of the ground with your palm, the movement of your forearm will inadvertently move another part of the ground.

What if a guy gets an

Erection

while playing the game, that will lift the whole board up

[Keyofx]

boy.. the sword is out today

Its always easy on the internet

[Gautam]

True, but it isn't going to process more frames than the camera can capture either.

 

And you're right, there are too many unknowns. But here's the reason for my skepticism. It's an example from the games I've played using the PS Eye. Now the programming of the Natal software may well be able to eliminate this, but its just an example of the issues that can come with using the body as the controller.

 

There's a puzzle game called Trials of Topoq that requires to move a ball from A to B by raising the ground level below it using your hands. Now what happens is, when you move your palms to raise the ground, your elbows and your shoulders move as well and the camera will pick those movements up. If someone walks across the room behind you, that gets picked up as well. So while you may want to raise a part of the ground with your palm, the movement of your forearm will inadvertently move another part of the ground.

 

These issues don't come up when you have a definite point of reference like the Wii controller.

peace

 

There's a big difference in the tech here. From what I know and understand, Natal won't have the issues you've cited.

 

PS Eye if I'm not wrong is just a just a plain camera. Natal has an infrared camera. It doesn't just capture the image and try to guess which part is your hand and which your elbow. It captures your whole heat map and using the software detects your joints and limbs and continues to track them in real time. It can do this for up to 4 people at a time. I don't know but from whatever I've read so far I've found it to be pretty amazing. This doesn't seem like a tech you'd normally market as a gaming peripheral. My guess is that Microsoft found it to be the easiest way to get it in homes. We'll have to wait and see what are their future plans and how this thing really turns out.

[Pushy]

What if a guy gets an

Erection

while playing the game, that will lift the whole board up

 

???

 

why would a guy get an

erection

while doing that stuff? :blink: :blink:

[Keyofx]

That applies to real life as well

[Aftrunner]

???

 

why would a guy get an

erection

while doing that stuff? :blink:

 

 

I think you missed the point. He was trying to boast that he can have an

erection

that is noticeable 10 feet away on a miniature camera.

 

Which isnt that big a deal GS.

 

[Pushy]

+1

 

it ain't a big deal GS