jDaMn Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 ^ That's part of what I was trying to say. All franchise entries initially started with a new IP.. surely consumers don't have anything against new IP in video games, specifically? Maybe the rest is a natural failure rate and nothing wrong (abnormal) about even great games selling less. Apologies to WEWY The other part is that it is much harder to get a release in on the consoles because they are so tightly controlled. In movies and music you always hear about new hits coming outside of established franchises. People make great movies and they may not sell as much, but then again, they didn't cost as much to make. In the console market, unless you are limited to a downloadable game (Live Arcade game?), you have to sell as much as the big companies need to satisfy whatever return they have in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithuvien Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Personally, I am not unhappy about the lack of new IPs and I am sure 99% of teh gaming community does not care wether the game is a new IP or not. All they care is if the game is fun. I will happily splurge on Final Fantasy 14, 15,16,17,18 .. .... as long as I enjoy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyofx Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Criticise shitty motion control and zero interesting games at MS's PC, alright. Criticise relatively less boring sequels (lawl InFamous 2) and general lack of enthusiasm at Sony's PC, also alright. But criticising Nintendo for a lack of innovation makes you a laughing stock. This is why I go to MacRumors instead. Just straight news and no warped fanboy rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulovski Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Not just WEWY, there are new IP gems like Psychonauts as well which get creamed. It gets harder for the new IPs which are radically different. New IPs also suffer from a shorter attention span of the average gamer - they are not prepared to give a game the time it deserves. The first scene of boredom and say bye bye. If it wasn't for GAF pimping Demon's Souls, it wouldn't be selling so much. Even Atlus didn't print so many copies initially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 ^ That's part of what I was trying to say. All franchise entries initially started with a new IP.. surely consumers don't have anything against new IP in video games, specifically? Maybe the rest is a natural failure rate and nothing wrong (abnormal) about even great games selling less. Yeah, but then for most companies the purpose of developing new IPs becomes the creation of solid franchises. And IPs which cannot be used for sequels becomes less attractive investments for them even if they could turn into great games. This doesn't mean we won't have any new ips at all, but the no.s will be few. And the problem seems to be mainly with the games market. A new creation in other popular medias such as movies/books/music etc. doesn't seem to face a similar fate as long as the author is popular. But unfortunatey when it comes to games the franchise seems to matter even more than the developer. In the console market, unless you are limited to a downloadable game (Live Arcade game?), you have to sell as much as the big companies need to satisfy whatever return they have in mind. The problem is not with big and small companies. In the examples given all games were released by the same company with sufficient marketing. But new IPs fared far less better in most cases. This is why a CoD game by trearch is likely to sell more than another IP from Respawn and a Halo by 343 more than a new Bungie IP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dullu Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 I do agree to the fact put forward by the article; but as everyone has been saying so far; its the consumer demand that drives the market, and in turn game development. The fact that excellent games like A-Wake and ME, infact Dead space don't sell is a major detriment for these companies to develop new franchises. Just like the movies which release in truckloads, there is no set formula of coming up and "wow"-ing gamers for sure. Mass Effect came along late part of this decade and did wonders! Hence the love for franchises. probably 50-60% of parents, while in a rush for holiday shopping, simply ask for the latest in "Halo" games, or NFS. You would be surprised to know the sales numbers for the recent NFS games (before shift, which was decent) as they sold much better despite being panned critically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Personally, I am not unhappy about the lack of new IPs and I am sure 99% of teh gaming community does not care wether the game is a new IP or not. All they care is if the game is fun. I will happily splurge on Final Fantasy 14, 15,16,17,18 .. .... as long as I enjoy them. The market data shows otherwise. SO4 which was said to be a mediocre title even in your own review had high sales (even pushed 360 to no.1 in Japan) while the great new jrpg franchises this gen like Valkyria Chronicles, Resonance of Fate, Infinite Space, WEWY etc. barely scrapped up the development costs. If it wasn't for GAF pimping Demon's Souls, it wouldn't be selling so much. Even Atlus didn't print so many copies initially. And even after that it sold around 500k or less, which is not that great. Mass Effect came along late part of this decade and did wonders! Even Mass Effect got crushed by Fallout 3 or a jrpg like FFXIII in terms of sales. And I don't have to explain here how good ME is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyofx Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 No one has anything against sequels, IF they're balanced out with other fresh content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulovski Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Like Puzzle Quest 2 Excuse me while I forget the next week of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyofx Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 The market data shows otherwise. SO4 which was said to be a mediocre title even in your own review had high sales (even pushed 360 to no.1 in Japan) while the great new jrpg franchises this gen like Valkyria Chronicles, Resonance of Fate, Infinite Space, WEWY etc. barely scrapped up the development costs.And even after that it sold around 500k or less, which is not that great. Well, new IP by themselves aren't enough. The games have to be good/what consumers want to play. And the Japanese industry may not be the best example to use here. They've got more serious problems than just new IP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithuvien Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 It could also be that new IPs suffer from lack of sufficient marketing while franchises take up every bit of space in teh cyberworld screaming about themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Well, new IP by themselves aren't enough. The games have to be good/what consumers want to play. And the Japanese industry may not be the best example to use here. They've got more serious problems than just new IP. All games I mentioned are some of the best in the genre. And Im just using examples from the market I know the most about. Its the same in the west with the examples MT gave. Like I said even Mass Effect didn't sell as much as other big rpg franchises. It could also be that new IPs suffer from lack of sufficient marketing while franchises take up every bit of space in teh cyberworld screaming about themselves. Definitely not the case with titles like Alan Wake or those of big companies like Square Enix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulovski Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Square Enix never advertised TWEWY - even they didn't believe in the game It's a crying shame since the game was perfect for the DS - down to the pin trading game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Square Enix never advertised TWEWY - even they didn't believe in the game It's a crying shame since the game was perfect for the DS - down to the pin trading game. Not outside Japan. Probably they knew it won't sell well in the west if that was the reaction they got for a jrpg in Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karooo Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Afaik Demon Souls wasn't intended for the western market, because of the high number of imports Atlus decided to bring it in NA. Sales are great for it 500-600k was more than what Atlus expected for it. + It got some great reviews, EG gave the import copy a 9, GS gave it Goty 2009 etc. As for the topic, Games will sell if they are advertised properly and if the review scores are great, Heavy Rain was a huge risk 40 mil or so for Sony, but it was advertised well that's why it managed to hit 1.5 mil fast. Also the Multiplayer component is very important even UC2 had to come with one, that kinda shows what people want nowadays. Also New IP's are rarely made with profit in mind, so the take whatever sales it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulovski Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Possibly - the battle system was very very complex, not your usual hack and slash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 DS was a sleeper hit and HR sales were a surprise even to developers. These were few exceptions, and even then nothing too great. And like I said its certainly not the lack of advertisements in most cases, Alan Wake being the most recent example. Also New IP's are rarely made with profit in mind, so the take whatever sales it gets. And that causes companies to focus their efforts of franchises while attempting to establish some new franchises. Thats exactly my point, the reason why we are seeing tons of sequels for every new IP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyofx Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 All games I mentioned are some of the best in the genre. And Im just using examples from the market I know the most about. Its the same in the west with the examples MT gave. Like I said even Mass Effect didn't sell as much as other big rpg franchises.Definitely not the case with titles like Alan Wake or those of big companies like Square Enix. Being best in the genre isn't enough when consumers don't want it. And the consumers that did want it (mostly the internal Japanese market) aren't buying anymore. The days of the PS1/PS2 are GONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyofx Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Possibly - the battle system was very very complex, not your usual hack and slash. WEWY? You couldn't any more accessible than that without dumbing the whole thing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulovski Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 They tried to dumb it down by allowing auto-play on top but what's the fun? Plus the pins could be confusing. It helped that the tutorial was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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