Tyler Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) I think Synder thinks the only way to make Superman interesting is to make him a darker character (comics also do that sometimes). However they all need to go and read Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman. @Star Lord... is there a post-credits scene? Just a yes or no would be fine. Edited June 2, 2017 by Tyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lord Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Nope. I'll be happy if MoS 2 would have a similar tone. Also, please recast Luthor Edited June 2, 2017 by Star Lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zibalingz Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Lettuce be honest ....all superhero movies are meh, You watch them once and that's it....Going back and revisiting them afterwards again you realize how badly they've aged in just a few years time and you've grow out of it quite quickly. The whole concept of superhero movie is quite cringeworthy now. I watched Iron man, batman, avengers, deadpool all in the theater...I loved them all, at the time it came out obviously but now rewatching them I can't even sit through for 10 minutes without thinking ...this sh*t is quite lame lol Watching them again later on is such a pointless exercise, its's the same stupid cliched plot line over and over again in every damn movie ...Men running around in tight spandex and capes beating up bad guys, saving the girl, saving the world, mixed with some lame jokes and sexual innuendo. Now we even have a 60kg soaking wet female in a tiny skirt running around beating up bad guys, saving the world. How about that new spiderman reboot?....omg so fresh! we got a fat mexican kid whose peter parker's best bud and the lesbian looking chick with sassy lines ..how many fukkin times will they reboot and re-imagine his story? Inb4 the next superman is a gay black dude or falls in love with a transgender lois lane...Lol! Can you imagine how badly all these superhero movies will age in 20-30 years compared to all time classics and cult movies? They literally have zero shelf life, the industry is churning them out at a break-neck pace. It's the public's appetite which has ruined the whole concept and the quality of these movies. Forget about Marvel vs DC....I don't think even they care about that stupid imaginary fight. It's all about cashing in on this craze that has already burnt out a generation that grew up watching these movies, same thing that happened with the people who grew with the Star Wars, LOTR and Harry Potter franchises. I can't believe they're still milking the star wars franchise... now of course with strong female leads and ethnic minority characters just to appease a broader audience....like really? Saddest part is that the CGI and VFX literally carry the whole damn movie. It does not get awarded enough recognition in the industry, all those vfx workers get worked to death on these movies for shitty wages....only to have the actors who stand in front of greens screen get all the praise and recognition, they wouldn't be anywhere without technology to make them look larger than life. All these superheroes can't carry a single movie just with their screen presence without any vfx or an ensemble cast Meh nevermind. Edited June 2, 2017 by zibalingz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Pain Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) That sounds exactly what I expected after the first few trailers hit. Thor and Cap TFA are basically the very definition of strictly average for me. Not bad, not great, but watchable. Still glad that DC made a fun movie with a lighter tone. That's how a Wonder Woman movie should be. Now if only they get Henry Cavill to smile in JL I'll be happy... PS: Going for a 10:40 pm show... Justice League was always intended to be in a much lighter tone with more crowd pleasing elements than Batman v Superman. In fact, they had completed writing the script way before Batman v Superman even released. Ben Affleck and Geoff Johns later made slight changes to the script not exceeding 30%. Regarding the character, even George Miller (who is an executive producer of Justice League) said that Superman is a very boring character and possess no creative challenge to film-makers and the only way to make him interesting for them is to find his dark corners and twist his world around. Nobody cared about Superman in SR, he was basically half-dead as a character, if anything, Zack made him relevant again for good or bad. His take on the character worked brilliantly for me in Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut, where Superman feels devastated for failing to save anyone at Senate, probably my all-time favourite sequence from any Superman film that completely sold me on him, and he is not evil like in the Knightmare sequence. He is very close to the Superman from The Animated Series who was also emotional and serious most of the times. Even in Rebirth, Superman had to be motivated by his wife to go save the world and help the Justice League in the final moment. In Kingdom Come, he abandons humanity because of what humans did to a thug not very different from what Lex tried to do with his mother i.e burning her alive and threatening him to kill Batman for his own beliefs about Gods. Superman could've saved her on his own instead of leaving her to Batman, but he puts his faith on humanity. He also saves Lex Luthor from Doomsday despite whatever Lex did. He is just misunderstood because of the Theatrical Cut. Ultimate Cut turned me into a fan of his and also Snyder. You can also notice subtle differences between Superman and Batman where they try to extract information - Superman operates in a legal and ethical way where even Cops help whereas Batman completely opposite to him. Kinda irrelevant to the topic but tells you that Zack understands him, he just doesn't want to make safe movies. You can go when you want, I just checked none of the show is sold out in any of the theatre. Guess will be replaced by mummy next week in almost all the theaters. Would have to see it this week itself. Edited June 2, 2017 by The Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) See, I get what Snyder was trying to do with the portrayal. But the comics have already handled these themes and yet managed to give readers a hopeful Superman who accepts the burden and yet thinks of himself as one of us. Maybe it's Cavill's acting but he constantly comes off as someone who feels obligated to help people and not a hero who selflessly does things because he really wants to. It's weird because the dude can be charismatic as hell when he wants to (The Man from U.N.C.L.E.). The real problem however I think is that we quickly get to what happens in BvS after MoS, he needed some room to grow and actually be the Superman everyone looks up to. But no, we get a brief montage, a monument and that's about it. Even when the comics show Superman in a different light they have years of character history to build up from. You can argue that BvS was not a movie made for casual superhero movie-going audiences and that's a valid opinion. But even for fans it has a lot of cringeworthy moments. Even the Ultimate Cut doesn't fix "save Martha!" and we're friends now even after trying to kill each other moments ago. Even the actual animosity isn't something that comes from their own ideologies but carefully orchestrated by Lex Luthor based on a series of conveniences and coincidences. I own the Ultimate Cut on BR and I've watched it multiple times but I still think it has many story problems. It's a fantastic looking movie no doubt and I like how different it is from standard fare. I still prefer rewatching it over a safe Marvel flick like Ant-Man or Thor. @zibalingz, you sound too bitter in your post. I agree that superhero movies typically don't age well (just try and watch the ones from the pre-Marvel Studios era - ones that aren't called Spider-Man 1/2, X-Men 2, Batman Begins and Blade). However with some of the new directing talent (and some old ones) we're finally getting to an era where superhero films are going beyond people in ridiculous costumes and VFX-driven spectacle. The Dark Knight is a legitimately good crime drama, Batman or otherwise. Logan is a sad movie about getting old and being forgotten. The Winter Soldier is a fantastic action movie that doesn't feel like a standard superhero flick. But yes, for every one of these there's a ton of forgettable ones and I agree most are not worth another watch. However, they are Hollywood's biggest cash cow and have been that way for almost 17 years now. People keep saying that the "superhero craze" will be over but honestly, it's been 17 years, it should have been over a long time ago. No fad in Hollywood has lasted this long. These movies are raking in billions of dollars and aren't going anywhere. Just look at all the talent attached to the MCU and DCEU. It's like more than half of Hollywood is committed to making these films. What do you do when you take away Star Wars, superhero films, shared world franchises away from theaters? This is escapist entertainment at it's best and that's what audiences want at the end of the day. They don't want a deep complex drama that will make them think, they want spectacle. They want to forget their real world problems for 2 hours and get lost in an imaginary world. There's nothing wrong with that. Sure there's room for legitimately good movies that stand the test of time and they still exist for ones who want to seek them out. In the end, there's always choice, turn a blind eye towards blockbusters and only watch movies that appeal to you. I have many friends who do just that and the existence of blockbusters doesn't bother them. When I sit down to watch or rewatch a movie at home, even I prefer something more thought provoking. But the next day I'm also ready to cheer at a badass superhero moment in the theater. Edited June 2, 2017 by Tyler 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Pain Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) See, I get what Snyder was trying to do with the portrayal. But the comics have already handled these themes and yet managed to give readers a hopeful Superman who accepts the burden and yet thinks of himself as one of us. Maybe it's Cavill's acting but he constantly comes off as someone who feels obligated to help people and not a hero who selflessly does things because he really wants to. It's weird because the dude can be charismatic as hell when he wants to (The Man from U.N.C.L.E.). The real problem however I think is that we quickly get to what happens in BvS after MoS, he needed some room to grow and actually be the Superman everyone looks up to. But no, we can a brief montage, a monument and that's about it. Even when the comics show Superman in a different light they have years of character history to build up from. You can argue that BvS was not a movie made for casual superhero movie-going audiences and that's a valid opinion. But even for fans it has a lot of cringeworthy moments. Even the Ultimate Cut doesn't fix "save Martha!" and we're friends now even after trying to kill each other moments ago. Even the actual animosity isn't something that comes from their own ideologies but carefully orchestrated by Lex Luthor based on a series of conveniences and coincidences. I own the Ultimate Cut on BR and I've watched it multiple times but I still think it has many story problems. It's a fantastic looking movie no doubt and I like how different it is from standard fare. I still prefer rewatching it over a safe Marvel flick like Ant-Man or Thor. Actually, Batman v Superman ends with hope. At least, that is what I interpreted and purely felt after watching the UC. Superman's last words are also exactly what Superman would say despite everything that happened and he also sacrifices himself to save the world. In addition to that, he also brings Batman out of his misery and darkness (he stops branding criminals thereafter and changes his way of actions), instills hope in Wonder Woman who had walked away from mankind. And his death plays a major role in the formation of Justice League and change in the perception of the world. I don't know how it is different from a hopeful Superman. Maybe it failed to give you such feeling? For me, it successfully did. Not everything has to be shown, in my opinion. We have already seen plenty heroics from Superman and Batman throughout our lives. It has been done to death and I thought it was time for something entirely different - diving into the darkest phases of their lives. Otherwise, it'd have been like any other Superhero film. It is also about how the world views Superman, not entirely from his point of view. Obligation to help, well, even Batman in TDK trilogy saw it as an obligation and wanted to quit being Batman if Rachel agreed to live with him. Now that said...Clark started saving people right from his childhood. What kept him back from doing that was how the world would react to his existence. It is played out in Batman v Superman as well and ends with it. He surely doesn't feel it as an obligation, he was just concerned about the allegations he was facing even while saving everyone from disasters. Now it is cleared and he can do that happily. It is also implied in Suicide Squad, "the world changed when Superman flew for the first time and when he didn't. The other meta-humans may not be as good as him." He is viewed as a National hero even by the government. It's a journey. I did not find any anything cringeworthy in it aside from the ding, ding, ding scene and maybe a couple that I don't remember. I agree that there are coincidences and conveniences and some problems in the story, but they did not matter to me. Flaws exist in almost every film. Martha sequence, it was poorly executed, but I think there are several explanations for it. To explain it in brief: Batman realizes what he had truly become - the very thing he fought against. He was no different than Joe Chill at that point. He realizes that and promises Clark that he would save his mother - sort of an act of redemption for him. I don't get the "best buddies" complaint. "A friend of your son's" is a better way to say it than anything like "I am Batman, I just tried to kill your son, I realized the monster I had become hence I've come to save you and thereby redeem myself." It is not perfect, but it is a perfectly good film. I don't have a problem if you still don't agree with me. It's just a film at the end of the day. No need to lose our minds over. Edited June 2, 2017 by The Panda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 You know I wouldn't have bought it and watched it multiple times (twice in theaters actually) if I thought it was a bad movie. And I said it myself, it's unlike any other superhero movie and for me that is a plus. It's just that a much better movie could have been made if they tightened up the script, removed the unnecessary Justice League tie-ins and focused more on conflict. I think an older slightly paranoid Batman was a great idea and Affleck played him perfectly. However it's Superman's portrayal that always bothers me, here as well as in Man of Steel. That scene where he stops Batman who is going after thugs who are carrying the only thing that can harm him... just to issue a threat is an example of bad characterization. Clearly he was going after bad guys and the dude has X-ray vision. Instead of helping him take them down he'd rather risk Batman crashing into a gas station. I know these are nitpicks but when you're trying to make a movie as ambitious as Batman v Superman you better make sure you're keeping it tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Pain Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 You know I wouldn't have bought it and watched it multiple times (twice in theaters actually) if I thought it was a bad movie. And I said it myself, it's unlike any other superhero movie and for me that is a plus. It's just that a much better movie could have been made if they tightened up the script, removed the unnecessary Justice League tie-ins and focused more on conflict. I think an older slightly paranoid Batman was a great idea and Affleck played him perfectly. However it's Superman's portrayal that always bothers me, here as well as in Man of Steel. That scene where he stops Batman who is going after thugs who are carrying the only thing that can harm him... just to issue a threat is an example of bad characterization. Clearly he was going after bad guys and the dude has X-ray vision. Instead of helping him take them down he'd rather risk Batman crashing into a gas station. I know these are nitpicks but when you're trying to make a movie as ambitious as Batman v Superman you better make sure you're keeping it tight. He views Batman as a bigger baddie which could be the reason why he stopped him. He also doesn't know anything about Kryptonite. And there are certain problems but every film is prone to errors, even the biggest ones. For me, the good totally outweighed the bad. May no be the same for everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Lol movie is between Thor and Captain America 1? Both were crap/average movies. Wtf are the critics paid or what? Oh wait it was posted by Archit. Lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobbii Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Lol movie is between Thor and Captain America 1? Both were crap/average movies. Wtf are the critics paid or what? Oh wait it was posted by Archit. Lol. Come on dont be too harsh.. we know he is the most unbiased user here.. i will trust his views.. [emoji14] Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Watched Wonder Woman and it is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sach4life Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Lol movie is between Thor and Captain America 1? Both were crap/average movies. Wtf are the critics paid or what? Oh wait it was posted by Archit. Lol. Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lord Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Lol sorry if I hurt your feelings DC Bros.I didn't know we have to agree on 'critics' for everything. Wasn't it different a year back when BvS and SS released? Edited June 2, 2017 by Star Lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lord Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Not really bhai.. just supporting a film which was getting unwarranted hate.. if you go watch and dont like it thn thats a different thing and would consider it an honest opinion.. Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk Oh okay sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobbii Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Oh okay sure Lol sorry if I hurt your feelings DC Bros. I didn't know we have to agree on 'critics' for everything. Wasn't it different a year back? Yes bro totally agree with you.. f**king paid reviews never agree with them.. Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lord Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Lol you don't need to agree with anyone.Grow up..movies are subjective like books/games.Everyone can have their own opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheK Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Lol you don't need to agree with anyone. Grow up .movies are subjective like books/games.Everyone can have their own opinions. If that is remotely possible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gautam Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Batman v Superman: RT 27% - "Critics are crazy. Movie is for the fans" Wonder woman: RT 93% - "Best superhero movie eva! Don't like it? You're crazy! Look at all this critical acclaim!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lord Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Yeah totally Critics have become awesome all of a sudden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Why the f**k does every conversation boil down to a debate. Can't we just enjoy stuff for what they are. You can like both marvel and DC . Shocking, but true Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk True but then one specific pencil head won't get to rub one out to the tears of fanboys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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