Shantz Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 ^^ yeah..a lot remains to be seen. I'm just critical of the folks who are dissing this as a completely dumb move based on a video.. I am basing my opinions on actually using it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achilles Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 @ Shantz..yea you though of the Padfone concept as well, right? I mirror DS' thoughts. I'll quote Gruber here coz he puts it better than I can, "it's difficult for MS to understand why the iPad runs iOS and not Mac OS. Why iOS can get away with being completely new and simplified is coz Mac OS is there to separately carry the burden of complexity and legacy. Windows can't run a shell over legacy in tablet form and hope it works properly." I think Win phone 7 can scale very well to a tablet size OS, but it has to be tablet only. If there's traditional windows underneath it'll be a development hodgepodge. Though maybe since you're using it you may know better or even many things I don't but I'm not hating on them on what they showed. I'm rather worried about their whole basis, their thought process rather than actual execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theneurotoxin Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 How am I supposed to use that snap feature or other core parts of the OS with a KBD & mouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shantz Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 @ Shantz..yea you though of the Padfone concept as well, right? I mirror DS' thoughts. I'll quote Gruber here coz he puts it better than I can, "it's difficult for MS to understand why the iPad runs iOS and not Mac OS. Why iOS can get away with being completely new and simplified is coz Mac OS is there to separately carry the burden of complexity and legacy. Windows can't run a shell over legacy in tablet form and hope it works properly." I think Win phone 7 can scale very well to a tablet size OS, but it has to be tablet only. If there's traditional windows underneath it'll be a development hodgepodge. Though maybe since you're using it you may know better or even many things I don't but I'm not hating on them on what they showed. I'm rather worried about their whole basis, their thought process rather than actual execution. yup i thought abt the padfone concept although the execution was quite a bit different.. it was more like transphone the other tab/phone combo that was also shown at computex.. But anyways, that idea wasn't meant to be a mainstream device but a niche serving one.. About the win8, separate os for tablet and PC thing.. they are "already" taking a merging path..You will see concepts from both sides being brought into their counterparts.. And everyone is doing it, including Apple.. Didn't they just release some updates to mac os to have iOS like homescreen, full screen apps, etc? All Linux desktop OSs (Gnome Shell, Canonical Unity etc) are doing similar things (much before Apple btw) And Android/webOS are bringing desktop concepts into phones/tablets. The problem that some guys have in understanding the concept of Win8 is that when they see the video they think Win 8 = Win 7 + Win Phone 7. i.e. win phone 7 shell slapped over traditional windows. But that is not at all correct. Win 8 is actually more like Chrome OS + Win Phone 8. When they say that you can also access the traditional UI, it will be more like traditional UI shell slapped over Win 8 internals. Even though the same moniker Win 8 might be used across platforms, it will not be the same OS. When they say "same OS" here, think about "same OS" as used in terms of iPad and iPhone. They are similar but not same. The OS is being built to "look" and "work" in a familiar way but it would be designed from scratch to scale properly across different platforms and allow different input patterns seamlessly but it is hard to describe in words right now. You have to use it to believe it. Microsoft has not been a force in innovation for quite some time and I deride their OSs more than anyone else but here I feel they have truly done something. If I may, I'd even say that they are actually not innovating here at all. Just doing something now that everyone else will start doing 2 years later. This is why I say that Gruber is wrong in calling it "fundamentally flawed". Microsoft is using the fundamentals that everyone else is too and they are shaping up pretty well in the execution perspective as well from what I have seen. What I feel has been done wrongly by MSFT is that they have given the preview at a wrong time. They should have waited but I guess in the hope of getting stockholders to retain their trust, they had to make this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man In The Box Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 That video looks really good. Looking forward to hear more news about Windows 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Stryke Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 @Shantz Check Grubers follow up article Here. Some more insight on what he meant. And Apple isn't merging osx with iOS. Just some fetures like easy uninstall, cloud etc. I'm sure they want to keep the two separate even if they have some similar features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achilles Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 @ Shantz..well what you've said wasn't at all clear in the demos. Every blogger calls it a win pho 7 UI shell over the desktop win 8. That's what the guy giving the demo also said. "you'll have the full desktop running everytime which can't be killed". Let's see what it actually comes to. Apple is cross borrowing ideas but in the way they do it always. Small step at a time and they make it work. Also I agree this conversion of computers -> Tablets has to happen but maybe not this soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shantz Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 @ Shantz..well what you've said wasn't at all clear in the demos. Every blogger calls it a win pho 7 UI shell over the desktop win 8. That's what the guy giving the demo also said. "you'll have the full desktop running everytime which can't be killed". Let's see what it actually comes to. Apple is cross borrowing ideas but in the way they do it always. Small step at a time and they make it work. Also I agree this conversion of computers -> Tablets has to happen but maybe not this soon. That is exactly what I am saying.. everyone is moving towards this thing but slowly. What Microsoft is doing is taking a huge jump rather than doing a marathon walk to it. Now, they may lose their footing and fall flat or they may clear the jump and win it all. I cannot say if they can win, but I also cannot decide whether they will lose. I am critical of anyone who makes a decisive judgement about either side. What I say is microsoft's fundamentals are well this time but they need to show they can execute them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Stryke Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 That is exactly what I am saying.. everyone is moving towards this thing but slowly. What Microsoft is doing is taking a huge jump rather than doing a marathon walk to it. Now, they may lose their footing and fall flat or they may clear the jump and win it all. I cannot say if they can win, but I also cannot decide whether they will lose. I am critical of anyone who makes a decisive judgement about either side. What I say is microsoft's fundamentals are well this time but they need to show they can execute them as well. Making decisive judgements is habitual of bloggers on the other side of the fence for any new tech that comes out. Happened every time. But agree with what you said. They could fall flat or succeed in creating something no one has yet attempted, merging mobile and desktop OS, each with their own myriad set of requirements and niggles. Hope MS does pull it off. This is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devil_angel Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 I'm not very sure about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choron ka raja Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 I don't understand how is running a windows OS with MetroUI, will cause any problem. Everyone on the haters bandwagon, going "I am just not sure, how they can have a desktop OS on tablet" sh*t, is just forgetting the fact, that even today there are a couple of tablets with windows XP running on it. With newer and faster chipsets, and better OS optimization, I can't see a reason for this to fall flat, apart from the same "MS is sh*t" argument winning over, or stupid marketing from MS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achilles Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 I can't see a reason for this to fall flat, apart from the same "MS is sh*t" argument winning over, or stupid marketing from MS. Aha. So you can see a reason. Two reasons to be precise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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