Bulovski Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 In 1982, In Singapore,CPIB(Similar to LOKPAL BILL) was implemented and 142 Corrupt Ministers & Officers were arrested in one single day.Today S'pore has only 1% poor people & no taxes are paid by the people to the govt, 92% Literacy Rate, Better Medical Facilities, Cheaper Prices, 90% Money is white & Only 1% Unemployment exists. So we are saying that arresting corrupt ministers leads to eradication of poverty, taxes, illiteracy, unemployment and what not? Let's be very clear - the bill (theirs, ours) is not a panacea which will cure all evils. Second, administration is much much easier with a small population as compared to a humongous one. If this is just a fight against corruption, why do we need a separate overarcing body across all the functions? Why can't we remove the existing corrupt bureaucrats and put in a new set of administrators? A new nationwide body with it's own powers will just add to our headaches. Right now, in your city / municipality / locality, do you know whom to approach for administrative issues? We don't because there are twenty different bodies - now we will just add one more. Each of the previous twenty bodies was supposed to do everything and now all of them are white elephants. There will be future rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prakhar Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 In 1982, In Singapore,CPIB(Similar to LOKPAL BILL) was implemented and 142 Corrupt Ministers & Officers were arrested in one single day.Today S'pore has only 1% poor people & no taxes are paid by the people to the govt, 92% Literacy Rate, Better Medical Facilities, Cheaper Prices, 90% Money is white & Only 1% Unemployment exists. Comparing India and Singapore is like comparing Lion with a Rabbit.Singapore is country with a size similar to Delhi, Population less than Delhi, etc Demographics, problems, way of governance are so very different between the two countries, parliamentary process, no. of parties, political system is way different, so doing what they did way back in 1982 is surely commendable, but it is not easy as it seem to implement and execute the same here in India. Yes i wish we have a strong Anti-Corruption Law. I have faith in our elected representatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushy Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 @pushy, your point to not to force helmet ,seat belts and comparing them to rain coats is so immature......These laws there to keep you safe and protected ....and like motabhai pointed out ...if you are allowed to do that than government should just remove all restriction on drugs etc also....certain laws will be there for the benefit of society. Also pushy.....just last week in kolkata there was a major accident when two young guys racing died ....one serverly injured and they were not wearing helmet.......it was all over in news paper......stop thinking yoruself as hero and riding bikes without helmets etc and trying to speed unnecessarily ..... got through all these...it is sad bro....these days people dont even come to help if you are hit.... did u even read my posts? But in India, we know we wont be fined legally, so we pay 100 bucks to police and get away. Next time, when a cop stops you and asks 100 bucks for not having a PUC, ask him to fine you legally. He will gladly cut a legal reciept of 500 which you have to pay in court. That will make you happy I guess. lulwut u mad? once i was pillion on my bro's sports bike, the sucker stopped us, everything was clear, then he wen't on saying that tyre size is illegal, the silencer is illegal, yes, this is the f**king thing he said, then he had to show him all the company documents and point out that it's stock silencer from company. f**k that, even on my bike, one sucker told me that such modification to bike is not legal, LOL, u think i would take this crap? i immidiately showed him the manual and pointed out that it's a bloody stock company bike and said that i ain't paying a f**king penny to him. yes, these are one of few of those 1000 f**king stupid unreal reasons people have to pay fine for. misinformed people would easily pay up the fine, not me, not a chance. lol, i don't even know what he was going to fine me for, as in what challan he was going to make also, sexdown, pm me them mails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avkash Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 then he wen't on saying that tyre size is illegal, the silencer is illegal, yes, this is the f**king thing he said, then he had to show him all the company documents and point out that it's stock silencer from company. the Troll king was Trolled- so there's where you learned it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushy Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 the Troll king was Trolled- so there's where you learned it all hey, u have to defeat enemies to become the Ultimate King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avkash Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 sadly this is the state after refusing to pay the bribe, my Naani had to provide proof that my Naana is dead and that she is alive to get his pension, EVERY MONTH, I saw tears in her eyes, I wanted to kill the bastard, I was too small, 10 I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM Sunny Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 you have a bad argument and end things there. Or, you could just get a knife and stab them to death. You wont take the knife route because you know its murder and you know by committing it your going to prison. You know its a crime because there is a strict law to enforce the same. If there was no such law prevalent and murders were free to commit, I doubt you'd see much law and order anywhere. The fact that people aren't stabbing each other because they fear law is pretty sick. They should atleast have a moral sense of right & wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Not going through the entire thread, but some points regarding the Jan Lokpal bill - The ability to investigate and police all authority in the country from the PM to the Judges. - The ability to take punitive actions including seizure of assets and imprisonment without a court order or a proper judicial process. - The demand to merge other similar bodies including the Vigilance and relevant parts of the CBI - The non-democratic selection process of the Lokpal committee By adding all these we get a single non democratic body which has power to police and punish all citizens of the country without a judicial process and does not have anyone else to watch over them due to capable organizations being already merged with them. In short - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushy Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 The fact that people aren't stabbing each other because they fear law is pretty sick. They should atleast have a moral sense of right & wrong coz they noe drink Sunny Coffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killzone123 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Not going through the entire thread, but some points regarding the Jan Lokpal bill - The ability to investigate and police all authority in the country from the PM to the Judges. - The ability to take punitive actions including seizure of assets and imprisonment without a court order or a proper judicial process. - The demand to merge other similar bodies including the Vigilance and relevant parts of the CBI - The non-democratic selection process of the Lokpal committee By adding all these we get a single non democratic body which has power to police and punish all citizens of the country without a judicial process and does not have anyone else to watch over them due to capable organizations being already merged with them. In short - repped..nice way to sum it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM Sunny Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Not going through the entire thread, but some points regarding the Jan Lokpal bill - The ability to investigate and police all authority in the country from the PM to the Judges. - The ability to take punitive actions including seizure of assets and imprisonment without a court order or a proper judicial process. - The demand to merge other similar bodies including the Vigilance and relevant parts of the CBI - The non-democratic selection process of the Lokpal committee By adding all these we get a single non democratic body which has power to police and punish all citizens of the country without a judicial process and does not have anyone else to watch over them due to capable organizations being already merged with them. In short - As if Next you'll say they are shouting slogans such as 'Anna is India & India is Anna' Like that could ever happen ohwaitamin http://politicsmonitor.com:80/?p=501#more-501 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n86_8cMpFYM&feature=player_embedded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarbonCore Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Applies perfectly to our judiciary system, Supreme court and election commission. Oh sh*t, hope they don't put me behind bars for speaking against the court (contempt of court) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avkash Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 very well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushy Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Noctis is one mis-informed guy :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Either u'r mis-informed or I am Its the second one, just google for the proposed draft. They will have police powers, particularly with the vigilant and part of the CBI being merged with them. Applies perfectly to our judiciary system, Supreme court and election commission. If that was the case we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM Sunny Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Section 12 of Hazare?s draft Bill states ?- Lokpal to be deemed police officer (1) For the purposes of section 36 of Criminal Procedure Code, the Chairperson, members of Lokpal and the officers in investigation wing of Lokpal shall be deemed to be police officers. (2) While investigating any offence under Prevention of Corruption Act 1988, they shall be competent to investigate any offence under any other law in the same case. Section 10.2 of their draft Bill says ?- We are also deemed judiciary (2) For the purpose of any such investigation (including the preliminary inquiry) the Lokpal shall have all the powers of a civil court while trying a suit under the Code of Civil Procedure, 1908, in respect of the following matters, namely:- (a) Summoning and enforcing the attendance of any person and examining him on oath; ( Requiring the discovery and production of any document; © Receiving evidence on affidavits; (3) Any proceeding before the Lokpal shall be deemed to be a judicial proceeding within the meaning of section 193 of the Indian Penal Code Lokpal, after getting such enquiries and investigations done as it deems fit, may take one or more of the following actions: a. Close the case if prima facie, the complaint is not made out or b. Initiate prosecution against public servants as well as those private entities which are party to the act c. Order imposition of appropriate penalties under CCS Conduct Rules Provided that if an officer is finally convicted under Prevention of Corruption Act, major penalty of dismissal shall be imposed on such government servant. d. Order cancellation or modification of a license or lease or permission or contract or agreement, which was the subject matter of investigation. e. Blacklist the concerned firm or company or contractor or any other entity involved in that act of corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarbonCore Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 If that was the case we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. The powers of Supreme court goes way, way beyond JLP bill, they are, well, supreme. If a common man reads them he'll be dumbstruck and think how anyone would've allowed one system to have so much authority over Parliament, PMO and the entire Constitution. Its a good thing they're beautifully interwoven with President's power to appoint judges and PM and House's power to sack them with majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 The powers of Supreme court goes way, way beyond JLP bill, they are, well, supreme. If a common man reads them he'll be dumbstruck and think how anyone would've allowed one system to have so much authority over Parliament, PMO and the entire Constitution. Its a good thing they're beautifully interwoven with President's power to appoint judges and PM and House's power to sack them with majority. Sure, but they also have many limitations as to how they can execute them and you have written some of that with the last sentence. There is a balance between the ministry and the judiciary, something which the proposed lokpal committee does not share. I would like to see a committee which has investigative powers to find out the corruption, but any punitive action should go through a proper judicial process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 ^^thats what Kejriwal said is the case in one of his public explanations of Their version of the bill Funny I would have fully supported the bill if it was as you said, but thats not the draft being given in the news sites. Ill be glad if thats wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherry Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 and you were asking me why I broke the law at first place Yea but I dont rant like you after paying a bribe of 100 rs that too for your own fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.