CM Sunny Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 The game looks phenomenal and runs at 60fps locked, what are we complaining about again? rising fuel prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irredeemable Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 really now? do you truly wonder why that is? multiplatform developers have to split their resources across, you know, multiple platforms? whereas a first party developer only has to worry about one. and judging by some of sony's past exclusives, it seems that those studios have unlimited budgets to make their games, unlimited time in which to make them and apparently have no sales metrics that need to be met or profitability that needs to be achieved. a game like resistance 3 can take up millions of dollars and years to make, then flop in the market and no one at sony will even bat an eyelid. that's a luxury most studios don't have. speaking of naughty dog specifically, they are extremely talented devs but they also have a huge leg up on the competition considering they get early access to the technology and i read somewhere that they even helped sony build the dev kit for the ps3. and then you wonder why naughty dog can do it better than others? never forget sony's official development philosophy - "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do". speaking of rage specifically, have to keep in mind that it's brand new technology as well. in exchange for 1 technical issue (low lod on close up textures), you get a great looking game with an open world that runs phenomenally well on hardware that is years out of date. OT: Contrary to popular belief, naughty dog didnt start off as a Sony Studio.. In fact, they made games for different platforms before sony acquired them. On Topic: Did you watch naughty dogs "programming" video that gets unlocked in UC2 after completion of the campaign? I guess everyone who played UC2 did.. Listen carefully to what naughty dogs Andy Gavin says. He says they build their games ground up with the naughty dog engine, which itself is written in assembler. Color me stupid, but assembler is the hardest language to be writing a game on, which is actually why naughty dog ends up with amazing looking games. Assembler gives you greatest control over the hardware and the CPU that is unmatched with any framework / engine (example unreal engine, cryengine) might give you, but the code does get incredibly complex after a while, unmanageable even. Naughty dog are extremely talented developers who know what they want, and what they're doing. Same is the case with santa monica and ready at dawn (GOW: COO and GOW:GOS are absolutely wonderful games that ran on a PSP, a PSP for gods sakes and most games today dont even match that fidelity on a PS3) Now imagine if multiplat devs did the same thing, instead of relying on engines that were ported to platforms instead of custom making them for each platform? I don't claim to know much about the innards gaming industry, but I can claim to know atleast the practices they are talking about. Hard timelines are not excuses for pushing out games with 50% quality and then bitching about hardware limitations. If others can get it done right, these guys should too. The reason why sony's first party developers actually make great looking games is because they took the time to know the platform, and THEN start making the game. Even on dated hardware like the ps3, you get superbly rendered graphics because they took interest. Obviously this isnt the case with multiplat developers who want to rush a game, throw it out of the window and earn some quick cash. With that mentality, its no wonder that majority of multi plats except for the juggernaught franchises fail to make an impact. I dont know what you're sources are when you say Sony could let failures go unnoticed and sanction huge budgets, but AFAIK, insomniac is still answerable to Sony's top management, and top management are always running after profit margins. that they even helped sony build the dev kit for the ps3. I think you mean the ICE team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindoctor Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 The reason why sony's first party developers actually make great looking games is because they took the time to know the platform, and THEN start making the game. wrong. the reason sony's first party developers make great looking games is because they have only one platform to worry about. assembly level programming and that kind of optimization is a luxury only they can afford to do. multiplatform developers have to use high level programming and middleware because they have to get the game to run on different systems. given enough time and resources, those same devs could code down to the metal for all platforms as well (well not pc), but that would double or triple their budgets which are already going out of control. consider these 2 hypothetical scenarios - 1. multiplatform dev, 35 million dollar budget, 30 month production cycle, output game is on ps3 & 360 & pc. 2. naughty dog, 35 million budget, 30 month production, output on ps3 only. you think there's some magic involved here when naughty can get a game looking better on ps3 when they have effectively 2-3x the resources to throw at it? or alternatively, do you think naughty dog would be able to extract the visual fidelity that they do if they had to split those same resources and time across 3 platforms? now we don't know what budgets naughty dog gets, but we do know that they are given a full 2 years to create their game, which is more or less the standard for most AAA studios, so it's safe to assume their budgets are comparable. naughty dog is a talented dev studio but let's not pretend that their output being so good has nothing to do with the fact that they can focus more resources on one platform as compared to multiplatform devs. and sure, as a consumer, you'd like to see god of war 3 graphics in your games, but you have to remember that sony bankrolled the santa monica studio with 45 million dollars and gave them 3 years to create it. or that they gave polyphony digital 60 million dollars and how many years to create gt5? give a good studio 45 million dollars and 3 years and they would be able to come up with a similarly amazing looking game on the 360 as well. but if you are doing multiplatform development, and want both (or all 3) versions of the same game to look that good, you're talking about a budget of over 100 million dollars. it doesn't scale linearly but you get the point, it would become insane. and the reality is, even multiplatform devs are getting better as the generation goes on. right when the ps3 released, i believe there was a major discrepancy between the quality of ps3 and 360 versions of the same game. today the ps3 versions are almost as good as the 360 ones. and both 360/ps3 games today look far better than launch titles did. it's all because the developers got better. naughty dog got better too, the difference between uncharted 1 and 3 is there for all to see. but you cannot blame a multiplatform developer for not having the level of optimization and visuals that an exclusive studio can manage when the latter have so much more time and money to throw at their single platform games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird Bird Bird Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 rising fuel prices Dollar rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketTantrik Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 "Tight Memory, Poor IO Performance". Almost like he's rating a wannabe pr0nstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irredeemable Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 "Tight Memory, Poor IO Performance". Almost like he's rating a wannabe pr0nstar. Now thats the funniest sh*t Ive heard all week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irredeemable Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 it doesn't scale linearly but you get the point, it would become insane. Agreed. Good point there. The problem with these studios is they're trying to do everything at once. What if titles came out on one platform first, and then on the other, and then on another? Something like what limbo did, although my argument might not have been their intention. The title came out on XBLA first I believe, and now its on PSN and steam. The title is still multiplat and Ive read sales numbers are going strong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 "Tight Memory, Poor IO Performance". Almost like he's rating a wannabe pr0nstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketTantrik Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 What about MS first party? They also focus on one platform and have "unlimited resources and budget" but they are still behind Sony first party. Since we are talking about looks only, lets just assume that I am talking about visuals. Microsoft prefers that devs use its DirectX API to access hardware rather than allow direct low level access. Using DirectX makes it easier to program for the underlying hardware but does not allow you to tap into the full potential of the hardware due to the API overhead. Additionally, Microsoft is far less forgiving of budgetary and time overruns than Sony is. Still, Gears 3 and especially Forza 4 do showcase what is possible within Microsoft's constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketTantrik Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 What if titles came out on one platform first, and then on the other, and then on another? Something like what limbo did, although my argument might not have been their intention. The title came out on XBLA first I believe, and now its on PSN and steam. The title is still multiplat and Ive read sales numbers are going strong.. Possible but devs for larger games (read: expensive to develop games) can afford to do this only if there is outside monetary support for the initial development phase. Otherwise its more cost effective to attempt simultaneous multiplat development because as spin pointed out, the costs dont scale in a linear fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Lol spin is an easy bait. He has been posting wall of text in all of the threads recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 What about MS first party? What first party? Only Turn 10 is the real first party dev (forget other cuckoo devs like Lionhead, Rare etc), and their Forza 4 is already showing top notch visuals (though they still have struggled to include weather effects, night racing etc). Other devs are 3rd party like Epic, Bungie etc. And 3rd Party exclusive's budgets/freedoms != First Party budgets/freedoms. You can clearly see the difference in first party and 3rd party exclusives in case of Sony as well. Example is Resistance series. PS: We are talking only about visuals here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irredeemable Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 (forget other cuckoo devs like Lionhead, Rare etc) Something is definitely wrong with the universe today, its making me laugh too hard! Also, titmans on a roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 ^Awesome gif. Cant believe that actually happened. Is it from a movie? Or just a clever edit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketTantrik Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 @Sanke: repped for that gif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irredeemable Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 ^Awesome gif. Cant believe that actually happened. Is it from a movie? Or just a clever edit? Its from a national geographic documentary on battleships and their battle readiness. There is a I dunno what they call it, a flexible rope thingie which the aircraft is supposed to hook on to in order to land. If the aircraft doesnt hook on in time, it will overshoot the runway on the battleship. Thats what you saw happening there, and the pilot pulled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindoctor Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 and let's not forget that even though they use ue3 middleware, games like gears of war 3 or bulletstorm can be absolutely gorgeous at times, which is a very impressive achievement considering how old the hardware is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karooo Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 That Simpsons one was funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaio Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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