ALPHA17 Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 ^^ My issue is less with why UBISOFT using 6GB of RAM and more with Razpor's sweeping statement of RAM requirement being higher due to the application being 64-bit. This is akin to recommending hardware because, Higher clock speed. More cores on CPU. More transistors = greater performance. More memory bandwidth. More V-RAM on graphic card. Anyway I am not a programmer so I relied on Google for this and thus rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindoctor Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 More RAM lets you load more and higher quality assets. This translates to bigger, seamless game worlds, higher poly counts, better textures (VRAM) and possibly other things like more accurate ballistics models/physics data. It also reduces the amount of data you need to swap with your page file which leads to smoother gameplay and shorter loading times. Limiting to 32bit would necessarily scale down the game. Going x64 only is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALPHA17 Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 ^^ Nobody is arguing about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shantz Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 More RAM lets you load more and higher quality assets. This translates to bigger, seamless game worlds, higher poly counts, better textures (VRAM) and possibly other things like more accurate ballistics models/physics data. It also reduces the amount of data you need to swap with your page file which leads to smoother gameplay and shorter loading times. Limiting to 32bit would necessarily scale down the game. Going x64 only is a good thing.yeah, this is just a step towards an eventuality. 32 bit is on the decline. Most linux distros have also finally started recommending their 64 bit versions over 32 bit ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razpor Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 In question of which game uses native 64bit app, answer is Crysis 1 and Warhead. I know bunch of others too, can't remember names right now. Far Cry 1 had a special 64bit upgrade patch. None of these required exorbitant RAM compared to 32bit versions. We're pointers not used there? Pointers are used everywhere 32 or 64 bit alike they are larger in size in 64 bit apps though,i dont understand what point you are trying to make,being 64 bit doesnt automatically make a game extremely demanding in ram ,there is a good chance watch dogs wont be too but it would definitely use more ram than thew games previously have been or it could just be gaming industry trying to set new standards for upcoming games,plus the games you mentioned aren't particularly top of the line as of today.Also when they were launched 6 gb ram was hardly the norm let alone 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razpor Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 ^^ My issue is less with why UBISOFT using 6GB of RAM and more with Razpor's sweeping statement of RAM requirement being higher due to the application being 64-bit. This is akin to recommending hardware because, Higher clock speed. More cores on CPU. More transistors = greater performance. More memory bandwidth. More V-RAM on graphic card. Anyway I am not a programmer so I relied on Google for this and thus rest my case. still true. Ram requirement is related to it being a true 64 bit app,or you can say the game requiring more ram to deliver said perfomance and hence ubisoft chose to take the 64 bit way to allow the application to be addressed more memory,either way higher ram requirements and being 64 bit only executable go hand in hand in almost all cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindoctor Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 ^^ Nobody is arguing about that. Shantz was wondering why they had such high memory requirements. I was just pointing out the benefits of having more RAM. It makes for better games and so upping the baseline is a good thing. Try telling that to people who only use their PC for DOTA 2 and CS1.6. If they're only playing Dota and Counter Strike then none of this affects them right? They don't need to upgrade for a game they're not going to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Pointers are used everywhere 32 or 64 bit alike they are larger in size in 64 bit apps though,i dont understand what point you are trying to make,being 64 bit doesnt automatically make a game extremely demanding in ram ,there is a good chance watch dogs wont be too but it would definitely use more ram than thew games previously have been or it could just be gaming industry trying to set new standards for upcoming games,plus the games you mentioned aren't particularly top of the line as of today.Also when they were launched 6 gb ram was hardly the norm let alone 8. I meant Comparing them to their 32bit versions. Coz according to you, Crysis 64bit will require way more RAM than 32bit. Though both required same. Only thing that 64bit was able to access 4gb+ RAM, nothing else. Both ran fine on 1gb memory on 64bit OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindoctor Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Don't be elitist even people like Arch-On want to play the game...or pretend to. He owns a $2000 laptop. I'm sure he'll find the money to upgrade somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRch-0n Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 He owns a $2000 laptop. I'm sure he'll find the money to upgrade somehow I also have a PC and monitors, lots of monitors..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razpor Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I meant Comparing them to their 32bit versions. Coz according to you, Crysis 64bit will require way more RAM than 32bit. Though both required same. Only thing that 64bit was able to access 4gb+ RAM, nothing else. Both ran fine on 1gb memory on 64bit OS. Crysis is an old game,back then developers didn't have the liberty to address excessive amount of space to memory and not worry about it,hence they programmed it to use less system ram,there are ways to do that i am not denying it.Though i am pretty sure there must be some amount of memory swapping going on in 64 bit versions of crysis more so compared to 32 bit in case of memory starved system,infact there are people with similar issues,most probably due to memory swapping and i/o issues in 64 bit version. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/769-63-gaming-performance-pagefile-windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Crysis is an old game,back then developers didn't have the liberty to address excessive amount of space to memory and not worry about it,hence they programmed it to use less system ram,there are ways to do that i am not denying it.Though i am pretty sure there must be some amount of memory swapping going on in 64 bit versions of crysis more so compared to 32 bit in case of memory starved system,infact there are people with similar issues,most probably due to memory swapping and i/o issues in 64 bit version. Okay leave Crysis, maybe it had 64 bit issues (personally I never faced any issues while launching 64 bit or 32bit exe on my 2 GB RAM old PC), here is a list of games that actually have 64bit exes, and run exactly on same amount of RAM: native 64-bit PC Games (incomplete): 1. (removed 64-bit version) Half-Life 2 2.(removed 64-bit version) Half-Life 2: Lost Coast 3. Bet on Soldier: Blood Sport 4. Codename: Panzers - Phase One 5. Colin McRae Rally 2005 6. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay 7. Far Cry 8. Indigo Prophecy 9. Shadow Ops: Red Mercury 10. Unreal Tournament 2004 11. WWII Tank Commander 12. S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl 13. Dreadnoughts 14. Crysis 15. Crysis Wars 16. Crysis Warhead 17. BioShock 2 18. Hellgate: London Actually Source Engine, Cryengine and UE3 support native 64 bit executable. However, very few games actually used them. Why? Because the games themselves didnt need to access GBs of RAM, so devs never bothered with 64 bit vesions. AMD pushed hard with AMD64 program, but wasn't a success, as there was no real world difference in actually having a 64 bit game, as amount of data to process was never that high only. Now we have games accessing 6 GB+ RAM as minimum requirement (why? because next gen consoles have 8 GB RAMs, 4-6 GB approx reserved for games, still not confirmed, so games are made with that in mind as consoles are lowest common denominators), so expect almost every proper next gen to be 64 bit only. Also, typically PCs require more RAM on exact same console ports as OS overhead is more. So a game running on 256 MB on consoles might require 1 GB or 2 GB on PC to function properly, as OS functions hog up the memory. I expect 8 GB to become minimum RAM required when next gen starts in full flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razpor Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I know how pc works,but anyway thanks for explaining the obvious again. On the topic though, i would try to explain once more.I have stated countless times that the ram usage varies from application to application,again obvious. See these games were made in mind with a memory constraints,i am not going to check each of them if they are native or not ,but its almost guaranteed they faced some issues while running in 64 bit mode in memory constrained systems especially in case of some older games running on very old hardware(as basic system ram were lesser back then),it is guaranteed to happen.When memory is lesser than required ,paging usually causes stuttering .In fact even far cry has some issues,they were mentioned in the very same thread for which the link i provided in last post. and thanks for stating the obvious about the next gen gaming ,i have mentioned the something on similar lines above ,if you did'nt read it. still true. Ram requirement is related to it being a true 64 bit app,or you can say the game requiring more ram to deliver said perfomance and hence ubisoft chose to take the 64 bit way to allow the application to be addressed more memory,either way higher ram requirements and being 64 bit only executable go hand in hand in almost all cases. and hence 64 bit executables only gives the developers free hand to use more memory,write longer instructions today,cause the basic ram available in an average computer today is almost twice compared to a few years back,when they couldn't really use 64 bit in the best possible manner due to the memory constraints of an average home computer,even in that case a 64 bit native game would still use more ram,i don't need to prove this.That is the reason 64 bit Crysis,farcry still had issues in memory starved systems at times. so comparing games made years back to one being developed specifically as a 64 bit application,is hardly reasonable,Watch dogs would have obviously more resources at hand and more will from the developers to go out and make full use of it. I don't even know why we are discussing this naive issue,you are stating the same thing albeit you may not want to agree with me,which i am finding hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven Angel Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boss Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Everything started with you saying they require more RAM because it is 64 bit and what I was trying to say is that since they require more RAM, they are 64 bit and not vice versa. When you said show me games with 64 bit which run on less RAM, I showed you ones which were 64 bit but still ran with less RAM, why? Because they didn't require more RAM. Same thing was said by Shantz, Alpha, Spin too. I cannot post anything simpler than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razpor Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Everything started with you saying they require more RAM because it is 64 bit and what I was trying to say is that since they require more RAM, they are 64 bit and not vice versa. When you said show me games with 64 bit which run on less RAM, I showed you ones which were 64 bit but still ran with less RAM, why? Because they didn't require more RAM. Same thing was said by Shantz, Alpha, Spin too. I cannot post anything simpler than this. nor can i,because you are not trying to make it simpler. Your are just arguing for the sake of it,is what i can make out from this post. I am not all knowing,but i am learning,it looks like you know everything,so i can't argue if your sole purpose is to win an argument for the sake of it.You won't get a trophy,neither would i. You can't even see that you are saying the same thing ,how can i ever hope to explain that.For the whole duration of this argument i have been repeating the same exact thing but no, answer this simple question if it was so possible that 64 bits app in the past were as demanding as the ones today,why wasn't watch dogs made 4 years back ? maybe you would think after seeing this that"oh such a stupid remark,how could it ever be possible on that hardware ...huh"" ,now reverse this same exact statement and see my last post, exact same thing. I never dive into an argument for the sake of it,if i am wrong i would yield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Dante Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Guys guys guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALPHA17 Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven Angel Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Guys guys guys Have some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razpor Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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