GunnerY2J Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 24 minutes ago, CarbonCore said: So after almost a year's break (thank you genetically inferior knees) did a proper leg workout. Deadlifts, barbell squats, 250 pound leg press, hamstring curls, the works. Couldn't get down the stairs without holding railings after the workout but felt great. That was 5 days ago and they're still soar. Looks like I can only fit one solid heavy leg day per week. 15 years ago I could've fit 3 per week while binge drinking on weekends and getting blacked out. Getting old fking sucks. This looks pretty intense. Any chance one could build legs without weights ? Like by 500 squats and lunges each ? Did it on Thursday and felt mildly sore for the next two days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarbonCore Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerY2J said: This looks pretty intense. Any chance one could build legs without weights ? Like by 500 squats and lunges each ? Did it on Thursday and felt mildly sore for the next two days. You can build endurance but you can't build muscle with that high repetition. In fact super high reps actually start eating your muscles for energy by breaking them down for glucose. The golden range is 8-12 reps till failure for building muscles. There's also two kinds of muscles in your leg, twitch muscles and slow acting one. Twitch gives you that explosive power that sprinters, jumpers and football players have that lets you move fast, while slow acting ones give you actual strength. High reps might build your twitch muscles and improve cardio (because anything legs = cardio) but not your quads or glutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerY2J Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 56 minutes ago, CarbonCore said: There's also two kinds of muscles in your leg, twitch muscles and slow acting one. Twitch gives you that explosive power that sprinters, jumpers and football players have that lets you move fast, while slow acting ones give you actual strength. High reps might build your twitch muscles and improve cardio (because anything legs = cardio) but not your quads or glutes. Yes, I read about these two muscles in physical education. Correct me if wrong but I remember their names to be : slow twitch muscles and fast twitch muscles. So, better to avoid lengthy reps and continue the 40 second set variations of the 7 minute leg exercises ? (following YouTube) Weights I want to avoid due to possible back pain from the disc and I have a weak upper body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KunjanPSD Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 4 hours ago, CarbonCore said: So after almost a year's break (thank you genetically inferior knees) did a proper leg workout. Deadlifts, barbell squats, 250 pound leg press, hamstring curls, the works. Couldn't get down the stairs without holding railings after the workout but felt great. That was 5 days ago and they're still soar. Looks like I can only fit one solid heavy leg day per week. 15 years ago I could've fit 3 per week while binge drinking on weekends and getting blacked out. Getting old fking sucks. Dude, don't do deadlifts if you are just getting back into gym. That is one of those exercises which doesn't provide enough return when compared to the risk you are taking in. And also, I would recommend to swap weighted sumo squats over deadlifts for your legs. Keep deadlifts mainly for your back routine and start with them once you don't get muscle soreness for a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KunjanPSD Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, CarbonCore said: You can build endurance but you can't build muscle with that high repetition. In fact super high reps actually start eating your muscles for energy by breaking them down for glucose. The golden range is 8-12 reps till failure for building muscles. There's also two kinds of muscles in your leg, twitch muscles and slow acting one. Twitch gives you that explosive power that sprinters, jumpers and football players have that lets you move fast, while slow acting ones give you actual strength. High reps might build your twitch muscles and improve cardio (because anything legs = cardio) but not your quads or glutes. That's actually not entirely correct. High repetition sets make your muscles be habituated to low oxygen and creatine environment. After a while, when new fibres get constructed they will not only provide you better endurance but also will be able to produce the same power with less resources and in presence of excess resources increase your max capability, which in turn increase your muscle size since now bigger and stronger muscles will replace them in future. I am not saying that you can do high rep regime everyday but once or twice a week won't be enough to increase glycogen breakdown to such extent that you lose muscle. Also, 8-12 reps till muscle failure is not recommended because then the same muscles won't be able to do their secondary job of being "support muscles" the next day/days. 8-12 reps till your muscles get tensed up i.e. that a rope is tightly winded around your muscle. Aim for muscle failure and max only once a month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarbonCore Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, kunjanp said: That's actually not entirely correct. High repetition sets make your muscles be habituated to low oxygen and creatine environment. After a while, when new fibres get constructed they will not only provide you better endurance but also will be able to produce the same power with less resources and in presence of excess resources increase your max capability, which in turn increase your muscle size since now bigger and stronger muscles will replace them in future. I am not saying that you can do high rep regime everyday but once or twice a week won't be enough to increase glycogen breakdown to such extent that you lose muscle. Also, 8-12 reps till muscle failure is not recommended because then the same muscles won't be able to do their secondary job of being "support muscles" the next day/days. 8-12 reps till your muscles get tensed up i.e. that a rope is tightly winded around your muscle. Aim for muscle failure and max only once a month. That's what I meant by increasing endurance. High reps like 500 squats wont increase your muscle mass but they will increase your lactate threshold, VO2 max and eventually use less ATP and oxygen for same activity. Also 8-12 rep twice a week has worked for me till now (actually 6-8 now) because I use mostly isolation machines. So the other muscle groups can be sore next day and I can still power through. 1 hour ago, GunnerY2J said: Yes, I read about these two muscles in physical education. Correct me if wrong but I remember their names to be : slow twitch muscles and fast twitch muscles. So, better to avoid lengthy reps and continue the 40 second set variations of the 7 minute leg exercises ? (following YouTube) Weights I want to avoid due to possible back pain from the disc and I have a weak upper body. Entirely up to your goal. But routines like squats or bench press are really meant for heavy weights because they're taxing on your weak joint like knees and shoulders. 500+ squats wont do any good to your knee long term, I'd rather suggest cycling or eliptical, or even running in proper form. Or go to the gym and use isolation machines like leg press and leg curls to completely remove your back/upper body from equation and target local muscles. 1 hour ago, kunjanp said: Dude, don't do deadlifts if you are just getting back into gym. That is one of those exercises which doesn't provide enough return when compared to the risk you are taking in. And also, I would recommend to swap weighted sumo squats over deadlifts for your legs. Keep deadlifts mainly for your back routine and start with them once you don't get muscle soreness for a week. Yeah I hate deadlifts. Risky af and my grip goes out before my hamstrings lol. Will try cables next time, there's some great substitute routine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerY2J Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 Oh right, I have been reading squats and lunges strengthen your knees and even low back. Would do high reps thing once a week then. Eleptical, I have now got at a high level and a bit bored of it.(although it is very tough everytime and I am unable to beat my previous 575 calories in 50 minutes) But yes, eleptical is an amazing and very tiring workout without stressing anything, Very short distance cycling I do everyday - would add more. Helpful advice here, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerY2J Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) Progress halted maybe for a 4-5 days it seems. Exercising with cough and cold was not a good idea. Edited January 28, 2020 by GunnerY2J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gursimar991 Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Fun Fact:- Deadlift is not a back exercise. Deadlifts works primarily on glutes , quads , adductors , hams with minimal contribtution of back ( it works in stabilizing your core muscles ) Also going to failure every session is not a good idea from hypertrophy pov because the fatigue generated from training to failure will hamper your performance in the next set which will lead to compromise in volume which is the main driver of hypertrophy so always keep 2-3 reps in tank or say stop 2-3 reps shy of failure. Also no exercise is risky and every exercise is risky if you don't micromanage the load and fatigue. Inury only occurs when you load the joint beyond its current capacity or doing too much work(volume) too soon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarbonCore Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 15 hours ago, gs_RoXxX said: Fun Fact:- Deadlift is not a back exercise. Deadlifts works primarily on glutes , quads , adductors , hams with minimal contribtution of back ( it works in stabilizing your core muscles ) Also going to failure every session is not a good idea from hypertrophy pov because the fatigue generated from training to failure will hamper your performance in the next set which will lead to compromise in volume which is the main driver of hypertrophy so always keep 2-3 reps in tank or say stop 2-3 reps shy of failure. Also no exercise is risky and every exercise is risky if you don't micromanage the load and fatigue. Inury only occurs when you load the joint beyond its current capacity or doing too much work(volume) too soon!! Yeah I know deadlifts are for hamstrings and glutes, but I'm scared shitless about involving any back movement with super heavy lifts, even with support belt on Smith machine. Heck even for squats I'm using cable machine now for compounds and keeping my back straight and vertical. I've had wrist, knee and groin injuries before but they tend to heal completely in couple of weeks or a month max. I'm not sure a back injury will heal in a lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRINI87 Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) I hit same muscle group every 72hrs MOnday - Legs Tuesday - Push Wednesday-Pull Thursday- legs Friday - push Sat - Pull Edited February 3, 2020 by SRINI87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gursimar991 Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 5 hours ago, CarbonCore said: Yeah I know deadlifts are for hamstrings and glutes, but I'm scared shitless about involving any back movement with super heavy lifts, even with support belt on Smith machine. Heck even for squats I'm using cable machine now for compounds and keeping my back straight and vertical. I've had wrist, knee and groin injuries before but they tend to heal completely in couple of weeks or a month max. I'm not sure a back injury will heal in a lifetime. There's super low almost rare chances of you injuring your back while exercising. Look up at number of injuries per 1000 hours in different sports and you will know what I am saying. Your back is much much stronger than you think it is. Only way you can injure your back is if it goes through an accidental trauma like you crashed on road or something like that. Its not your fault either there is too much of nuance regarding back pain and the society around us does the rest of the work by giving nocebo. I suggest you look to BARBELL MEDICINE on YT and there's 2-3 podcasts there regarding pain , inury and training along with current research supporting the claims. Start from here This one after above video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niks_flashbullet Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Yeah I know deadlifts are for hamstrings and glutes, but I'm scared shitless about involving any back movement with super heavy lifts, even with support belt on Smith machine. Heck even for squats I'm using cable machine now for compounds and keeping my back straight and vertical. I've had wrist, knee and groin injuries before but they tend to heal completely in couple of weeks or a month max. I'm not sure a back injury will heal in a lifetime.If your gym has a hex/trap bar (google it) you could do trap bar deadlifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRINI87 Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 I do kinda heavy deadlifts, i don't feel that much stress on lower back. But while heavy squatting i do feel the stress. Squat makes me nervous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerY2J Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, gs_RoXxX said: There's super low almost rare chances of you injuring your back while exercising. Look up at number of injuries per 1000 hours in different sports and you will know what I am saying. Your back is much much stronger than you think it is. Only way you can injure your back is if it goes through an accidental trauma like you crashed on road or something like that. Its not your fault either there is too much of nuance regarding back pain and the society around us does the rest of the work by giving nocebo. I suggest you look to BARBELL MEDICINE on YT and there's 2-3 podcasts there regarding pain , inury and training along with current research supporting the claims. Start from here This one after above video I'd say no since you mentioned in sports as well. Low back is the only always at risk part of the body. Everything impacts the back especially sports which involve lots of sudden and uneven movements, continuos running, falling, jumps,hard ground and physical contact as well (back is mainly used to shield from the opponent) All load is on the back when legs get tired as well. You can take a good kick anywhere on the body and it heals easily but back takes a lot of time. Edited February 3, 2020 by GunnerY2J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gursimar991 Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 14 hours ago, SRINI87 said: I do kinda heavy deadlifts, i don't feel that much stress on lower back. But while heavy squatting i do feel the stress. Squat makes me nervous. Maybe if you could show your sideview video of squat that can help address if you are going wrong somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gursimar991 Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 14 hours ago, GunnerY2J said: I'd say no since you mentioned in sports as well. Low back is the only always at risk part of the body. Everything impacts the back especially sports which involve lots of sudden and uneven movements, continuos running, falling, jumps,hard ground and physical contact as well (back is mainly used to shield from the opponent) All load is on the back when legs get tired as well. You can take a good kick anywhere on the body and it heals easily but back takes a lot of time. Did you watch both the videos though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerY2J Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, gs_RoXxX said: Did you watch both the videos though? No, would have if it was 10 minutes or so. 3 hour long videos total :p anyway,speaking from personal experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerY2J Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 Back with following the 30 day leg routine, after missing 4 days being sick - did multiple days/leg parts (5) together in 2 days. And now the real deal has started which has become a pain to do, Also very difficult to get back to cardio, extreme lack of motivation now to do it - would switch the machine to something casual and lively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarbonCore Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 2/3/2020 at 9:04 PM, niks_flashbullet said: If your gym has a hex/trap bar (google it) you could do trap bar deadlifts. Nope none of those at my gym. On the flip side I did find this thing called 'landmine' that no one uses, and now I've found my safe alternative for barbell squats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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