goat Official Nintendo Switch Thread

[roun90]

2 hours ago, SaiKO said:

Only Nintendo can sell console and games with basically no push for graphical fidelity. No push for hardware, persisting dreaded controller stick issues. 

I mean, imagine the feat! The console sold alot in India without even Nintendo's official presence and support here. People just said: "eh...f**k warranty and support, I'll just get the console to play games while I'm mobile".

Btw, if anyone is wondering, Switch is basically as powerful as a mere iphone 7! That's basically nothing nowadays. They could have done more, but it's nintendo and their fanbase don't even care for actual upgrade, and more into gimmicks.

 

2 hours ago, iam said:

Sorry but this just sounds absurd. 

Every game developer works with limitations and tries to achieve maximum possible with it. Except the other consoles just have much higher ceilings. 

Everything that a dev can achieve on Switch, it would be better on better hardware. 

This is just Nintendo's strategy of making money off hardware which no other platform can do (working well too). But don't delude yourself into thinking switch has the amazing games because of the limited hardware. Mario kart won't hurt from a 4k resolution and Botw would feel better at 60 fps. 

Good games and competent hardware aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

Really though? Zelda BOTW is no graphical powerhouse. But it set the trend for Open World games, and now others are trying to ape it. SMO is no graphical powerhouse. But it had a damn innovative gameplay, and now others are trying to ape it, including games like Ratchet. Smash Bros is a really innovative fighting game, and is one of the leading fighters in the industry. The kart games are really innovative. If we go into big RPGs - Xenoblade games have a masterful story plus a really innovative gameplay. Fire Emblem is an absolute blast, and one of the most premier games in the SRPG segment, which every dev ignores. Nintendo is the only one who game Platinum the time of the day when they pitched Bayonetta 2 - when none of the other major "Powerhouses" did.

 

Even the 3rd parties put all their innovative, experimental and creative games on the Nintendo platforms. Games like The World Ends With You, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Etrian Odyssey, Bravely Default, Radiant Historia, Monster Hunter Stories and many more. All of these are not indies. All are from major publishers like Square Enix, Capcom, SEGA/Atlus etc. who reserve their "high Graphics" games for the PS and Xbox.

 

Yes, the major home consoles are "technically" great and can achieve all those games. But the market demands only high graphics games over there. And high graphics games, are for the most part - either by the numbers repeats (Ubisoft types), established huge IPs or going off a really innovative formula that came on the Nintendo platform or PC platform first anyway. Very rarely do we see a proper major new genres start on the home consoles (The last I can think of is the Soulsborne which started way back on the PS3). Even 3rd party JRPGs with low graphics like Octopath Traveller, Shin Megami Tensei, Ni No Kuni etc. came to Nintendo before moving to other platforms.

 

The demand for low graphics games in home consoles is just not there. You can even look at it right now. How many people are honestly excited for games like Deathloop (PS5) or Grounded (XSX)? These games are also not indies, but from huge developers (Bethesda and Obsidian respectively).

Edited July 7, 2021 by roun90

[KunjanPSD]

9 minutes ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

 

That will be the biggest FU from Nintendo to their fans if MP4 does not release on Switch. 

Nintendo doesn't want to let go of millions of Switch customers so they released Switch OLED. 

Now this will also sell like crazy, customer base will increase further and then they won't want to abandon them again when Switch 2 comes out and we will have a repeat of old hardware holding back the games.

[silv3rgunn3r]

2 hours ago, blitzkreiig said:

I guess Nintendo is doomed ??‍♂️

ya they must be devastated

 

 

——————————-

Just bought a switch lite yesterday morning and they announce an oled switch  in the evening

But anyways waiting for switch pro , till then lite will suffice.

[Bird Bird Bird]

20 minutes ago, roun90 said:

 

 

Really though? Zelda BOTW is no graphical powerhouse. But it set the trend for Open World games, and now others are trying to ape it. SMO is no graphical powerhouse. But it had a damn innovative gameplay, and now others are trying to ape it, including games like Ratchet. Smash Bros is a really innovative fighting game, and is one of the leading fighters in the industry. The kart games are really innovative. If we go into big RPGs - Xenoblade games have a masterful story plus a really innovative gameplay. Fire Emblem is an absolute blast, and one of the most premier games in the SRPG segment, which every dev ignores. Nintendo is the only one who game Platinum the time of the day when they pitched Bayonetta 2 - when none of the other major "Powerhouses" did.

 

Even the 3rd parties put all their innovative, experimental and creative games on the Nintendo platforms. Games like The World Ends With You, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Etrian Odyssey, Bravely Default, Radiant Historia, Monster Hunter Stories and many more. All of these are not indies. All are from major publishers like Square Enix, Capcom, SEGA/Atlus etc. who reserve their "high Graphics" games for the PS and Xbox.

 

Yes, the major home consoles are "technically" great and can achieve all those games. But the market demands only high graphics games over there. And high graphics games, are for the most part - either by the numbers repeats (Ubisoft types), established huge IPs or going off a really innovative formula that came on the Nintendo platform or PC platform first anyway. Very rarely do we see a proper major new genres start on the home consoles (The last I can think of is the Soulsborne which started way back on the PS3). Even 3rd party JRPGs with low graphics like Octopath Traveller, Shin Megami Tensei, Ni No Kuni etc. came to Nintendo before moving to other platforms.

 

The demand for low graphics games in home consoles is just not there. You can even look at it right now. How many people are honestly excited for games like Deathloop (PS5) or Grounded (XSX)? These games are also not indies, but from huge developers (Bethesda and Obsidian respectively).

 

Couldn't have said it better. 

Nintendo drives fun and innovative gameplay, as simple as that. 

 

19 minutes ago, KunjanPSD said:

Nintendo doesn't want to let go of millions of Switch customers so they released Switch OLED. 

Now this will also sell like crazy, customer base will increase further and then they won't want to abandon them again when Switch 2 comes out and we will have a repeat of old hardware holding back the games.

 

Let's wait for a typical Ninty refresh cycle (6-7 years). 

[KnackChap]

Would've preferred they added that oled screen to lite version. 

[SaiKO]

27 minutes ago, roun90 said:

 

 

Really though? Zelda BOTW is no graphical powerhouse. But it set the trend for Open World games, and now others are trying to ape it. SMO is no graphical powerhouse. But it had a damn innovative gameplay, and now others are trying to ape it, including games like Ratchet. Smash Bros is a really innovative fighting game, and is one of the leading fighters in the industry. The kart games are really innovative. If we go into big RPGs - Xenoblade games have a masterful story plus a really innovative gameplay. Fire Emblem is an absolute blast, and one of the most premier games in the SRPG segment, which every dev ignores. Nintendo is the only one who game Platinum the time of the day when they pitched Bayonetta 2 - when none of the other major "Powerhouses" did.

 

Even the 3rd parties put all their innovative, experimental and creative games on the Nintendo platforms. Games like The World Ends With You, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Etrian Odyssey, Bravely Default, Radiant Historia, Monster Hunter Stories and many more. All of these are not indies. All are from major publishers like Square Enix, Capcom, SEGA/Atlus etc. who reserve their "high Graphics" games for the PS and Xbox.

 

Yes, the major home consoles are "technically" great and can achieve all those games. But the market demands only high graphics games over there. And high graphics games, are for the most part - either by the numbers repeats (Ubisoft types), established huge IPs or going off a really innovative formula that came on the Nintendo platform or PC platform first anyway. Very rarely do we see a proper major new genres start on the home consoles (The last I can think of is the Soulsborne which started way back on the PS3). Even 3rd party JRPGs with low graphics like Octopath Traveller, Shin Megami Tensei, Ni No Kuni etc. came to Nintendo before moving to other platforms.

 

The demand for low graphics games in home consoles is just not there. You can even look at it right now. How many people are honestly excited for games like Deathloop (PS5) or Grounded (XSX)? These games are also not indies, but from huge developers (Bethesda and Obsidian respectively).

I'm not talking about innovation in games here, only the push for the tech in games.

Games like BOTW looks and plays EPIC in CEMU (where it runs at 4k and with 60fps). Instead it looks pixelated and with bad fps in my Switch itself... even if I play on 4k TV with good inbuilt upscaler. 

I'm not asking that you should try CEMU version on PC (because that's goes to gray area, I did because I have Switch version of the game so gave the CEMU version a shot). But once you see how BOTW look and plays if the framerate and resolution is at it's best then you would know what's missing. And tbh, that's one of the reason I never could finish BOTW on my switch at all after witnessing the graphical fidelity of BOTW on CEMU.

Nintendo games could look and play alot better if atleast Ninty could give a damn to push the Hardware. But hey, if fans are OK with what they have, why would even the company try?

 

[SaiKO]

Also, I dunno how many of you played Hyrule Warrior on Switch, the game runs horrible with inconsistent FPS and has really bad resolution degradation when the big fight happens. 

If that's not holding a game due to Hardware limitation of an old tech I dunno what is. And funny thing is that's Ninty's own game, not even a 3rd party game.

[playstationdude]

4 minutes ago, SaiKO said:

I'm not talking about innovation in games here, only the push for the tech in games.

Games like BOTW looks and plays EPIC in CEMU (where it runs at 4k and with 60fps). Instead it looks pixelated and with bad fps in my Switch itself... even if I play on 4k TV with good inbuilt upscaler. 

I'm not asking that you should try CEMU version on PC (because that's goes to gray area, I did because I have Switch version of the game so gave the CEMU version a shot). But once you see how BOTW look and plays if the framerate and resolution is at it's best then you would know what's missing. And tbh, that's one of the reason I never could finish BOTW on my switch at all after witnessing the graphical fidelity of BOTW on CEMU.

Nintendo games could look and play alot better if atleast Ninty could give a damn to push the Hardware. But hey, if fans are OK with what they have, why would even the company try?

 

Most big publishers are barely turning out 1 game entire generation, vs a dozen games nintendo releases. Its not practical to expect that kind of graphical fidelity.

Plus most pretty open world games are boring.

[roun90]

1 minute ago, KnackChap said:

Would've preferred they added that oled screen to lite version. 

 

This will probably be the next SKU announced. OLED Screen is built for Lite. Docked looks great by itself.

 

Just now, SaiKO said:

I'm not talking about innovation in games here, only the push for the tech in games.

Games like BOTW looks and plays EPIC in CEMU (where it runs at 4k and with 60fps). Instead it looks pixelated and with bad fps in my Switch itself... even if I play on 4k TV with good inbuilt upscaler. 

I'm not asking that you should try CEMU version on PC (because that's goes to gray area, I did because I have Switch version of the game so gave the CEMU version a shot). But once you see how BOTW look and plays if the framerate and resolution is at it's best then you would know what's missing. And tbh, that's one of the reason I never could finish BOTW on my switch at all after witnessing the graphical fidelity of BOTW on CEMU.

Nintendo games could look and play alot better if atleast Ninty could give a damn to push the Hardware. But hey, if fans are OK with what they have, why would even the company try?

 

 

At least think of this fact - Nintendo developed and Greenlit the game in the first place. Yes CEMU can do better. Also, traditionally emulators have done better since history. But if Nintendo had gone the way of the other console makers - gameplay would have been far down the list. First would have been stuff like improving the assets, animations and all - which frankly all platforms can do far better, but which would have taken away from the gameplay. That has been Nintendo historically. They (and 3rd party devs) know they won't be able to compete in graphics ever. So they have to make an industry leading game inspite of that. It's why their creative juices have to flow and ideas have to come to make gameplay specifically better.

 

Also, you are ignoring portability altogether. Switch is a Handheld. If they had put all the bells and whistles (4k and all) - how long do you think the batteries will last. Handhelds live and die on their battery life. Also, I don't know ehich TV you are using, but on the one I'm usinng - Switch looks great. Not even close to the home consoles obviously. But it looks good enough.

[SaiKO]

2 minutes ago, playstationdude said:

Most big publishers are barely turning out 1 game entire generation, vs a dozen games nintendo releases. Its not practical to expect that kind of graphical fidelity.

Plus most pretty open world games are boring.

The existing graphics could look and play far better if HW is better.

CEMU version of BOTW is the example. It doesn't add graphical fidelity to BOTW, just runs everything at high res and with high framrates. Again, just an example.

Plus, Hyrule warrior doesn't run with good framerates in Switch itself. So a HW upgrade could have been fruitful. Just saying.

[SaiKO]

11 minutes ago, roun90 said:

Also, I don't know ehich TV you are using, but on the one I'm usinng - Switch looks great. Not even close to the home consoles obviously. But it looks good enough.

I'm using LG 55 nanocell 4k dolbyvision HDR. 

When I didn't try the CEMU version, I thought the switch version looks good on tv too.

Then I tried the CEMU on 1080p, not even 4k, just 1080p and 2k on my 2 different monitors. Even the 1080p looks SOOOOO much better than switch on Dock with 4k tv (BOTW runs at 1080p in docked mode). 

I will post screens if it's possible at night. It would be easier to show.

Edited July 7, 2021 by SaiKO

[radicaldude]

I think now as switch is a handheld too, traditional console upgrade paths should not be followed. Just like phones, one new switch with upgraded SoC should have been released in 2021 end or 2022 (maybe they will). (As powerful chipsets are available that are cost effective as well). 

 

Software should be the same on all generations of switches (newer models obviously performing better just like phones. ) Eventually upgrade the tablet with a higher frame screen (just like phone companies are doing). 

Edited July 7, 2021 by radicaldude

[radicaldude]

Is Don Matrick Nintendo's new merketing manager?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[roun90]

23 minutes ago, iam said:

You're not understand the core of the argument. 

It's not a question of the quality of games. They're good. At least people think that they are. That's why they sell. 

 

My point is, the games are great because the devs are great not because the switch hardware is underpowered. The same games would be better not worse on better equipped hardware. There is absolutely nothing added to a game from a 720p or less resolution and low frame rates. The games are great inspite of them not because. 

 

You're tying quality of games to power of the hardware and establishing an inverse relationship which is not right. 

 

It's literally the same devs. Capcom is there in Nintendo, they are there in PS/Xbox. Same for SE, SEGA/Atlus, Level 5 and all other devs. As are all the other devs. Other than Nintendo themselves - devs are all common across platforms. The difference is - if they want to make experimental games, try out really new stuff - but don't want to splurge on the bills of Graphics, Mo-Cap, Star Voice Actors, Symphonic Orchestra Music by legendary composers and all - they will go to the Switch. When they do splurge on all the above - they go to PS/Xbox. The problem is - when devs allot a huge budget - they can't allow the games to fail. So they generally don't experiment. They stay on the tried and true games. The market on those consoles also only accepts those "tried already" games.

 

Devs can go bonkers on Switch and PC. Those platforms accept anything and everything. They can't do so on PS and Xbox. I'll take example of Nintendo themselves, since they are the most famous. Imagine if they had made Zelda BOTW for PS4/PS5/XOX/XSX. They allot the AAA budget and make bonkers graphics. They are very much capable of that. But because the gameplay itself was new - the game flops. An entire huge budget is down the drain. On the home console side of things, that's why we have proven titles. Stuff like ES, Doom, GTA, RDR, Uncharted, TLOU and all - they will never fail. They are a known quantity. So the AAA budget goes there.

 

25 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

Is Don Matrick Nintendo's new merketing manager?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is Nintendo assuring people that there will be no exclusive games on the new Switch. Seriously, Nintendo is only competing with themselves (and maybe mobile). This guy is not Don Mattrick's equivalent. Simply because the "Upgrade" itself is not a big one. This "Upgrade" is more akin to PS5 and PS5 Slim. Nintendo does not care which version you buy. Eventually, the normal Switch will be phased out and only the OLED versions will be available.

[radicaldude]

6 minutes ago, roun90 said:

 

It's literally the same devs. Capcom is there in Nintendo, they are there in PS/Xbox. Same for SE, SEGA/Atlus, Level 5 and all other devs. As are all the other devs. Other than Nintendo themselves - devs are all common across platforms. The difference is - if they want to make experimental games, try out really new stuff - but don't want to splurge on the bills of Graphics, Mo-Cap, Star Voice Actors, Symphonic Orchestra Music by legendary composers and all - they will go to the Switch. When they do splurge on all the above - they go to PS/Xbox. The problem is - when devs allot a huge budget - they can't allow the games to fail. So they generally don't experiment. They stay on the tried and true games. The market on those consoles also only accepts those "tried already" games.

 

Devs can go bonkers on Switch and PC. Those platforms accept anything and everything. They can't do so on PS and Xbox. I'll take example of Nintendo themselves, since they are the most famous. Imagine if they had made Zelda BOTW for PS4/PS5/XOX/XSX. They allot the AAA budget and make bonkers graphics. They are very much capable of that. But because the gameplay itself was new - the game flops. An entire huge budget is down the drain. On the home console side of things, that's why we have proven titles. Stuff like ES, Doom, GTA, RDR, Uncharted, TLOU and all - they will never fail. They are a known quantity. So the AAA budget goes there.

 

 

I think this is Nintendo assuring people that there will be no exclusive games on the new Switch. Seriously, Nintendo is only competing with themselves (and maybe mobile). This guy is not Don Mattrick's equivalent. Simply because the "Upgrade" itself is not a big one. This "Upgrade" is more akin to PS5 and PS5 Slim. Nintendo does not care which version you buy. Eventually, the normal Switch will be phased out and only the OLED versions will be available.

 

Most people were expecting an upgrade similar to ps4-> PS4 pro. 

 

There is nothing for docked users in this upgrade. Only for the handheld crowd. 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by radicaldude

[Bird Bird Bird]

1 hour ago, radicaldude said:

 

Most people were expecting an upgrade similar to ps4-> PS4 pro. 

 

There is nothing for docked users in this upgrade. Only for the handheld crowd. 

 

 

 

But you cant compare PS with Switch, can you now ? It's primarily a portable machine with the added benefit of moving to a bigger screen. It's primary market will always be portable with the switching capability. 

 

Can you carry all the PS4/5 horsepower in your pocket, anywhere, without bothering about streaming etc ?

 

Very different market segments, hardware outlook, type of games, future potential, corporate vision etc. They should not be compared. 

[radicaldude]

I now get what @Bird Bird Bird and @roun90 have been saying. I went through mid gen refreshes of past Nintendo consoles and most of them have been incremental. 

 

for instance the gba-> ags001->ags101 with a brighter screen. Same was with the ds upgrade path - original ds-> DSL -> dsi with a better screen. 

 

however in 3dss case, the new Nintendo 3ds has more power and a better 3d screen. I think some games are exclusive to the new 3ds as well. 

 

with that said, in the past, due to the uniqueness of those systems, most games used to be exclusives. Even third party ones. However, in 2021, We get many third party Aaa ports on the system.   Nintendo could have atleast given us a better chipset, for more processing power if nothing else, for newer titles. This would have maintained software compatibility with older switches but would have ensured better performance for newer games, in handheld mode. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by radicaldude

[Bird Bird Bird]

3 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

Nintendo could have atleast given us a better chipset, for more processing power if nothing else, for newer titles. This would have maintained software compatibility with older switches but would have ensured better performance for newer games, in handheld mode. 

 

Think from Nintendo's perspective. 

You've a pretty solid and increasing fan base for Switch currently. Do you want to alienate all those and release a mid-gen refresh with higher horsepower, again to refresh the whole gen in 2023 ? 

Basically you're alienating your fans twice - once by releasing a beefier model in just 4 years, and then again by releasing an entirely new console in another 2 years. 

Add to it the complexity of development for 2 different SKUs now - currently it's one size fits all. What would be the cost implications ? 

They might already be in the process of a console refresh sooner than later, and hence this release might make sense from an incremental perspective. 

Ofcourse, everything is speculative, but from a company's perspective, they would rather devote time, money and people on bringing a new console soon than half heartedly pushing new specs, making it obsolete again after 2 years. 

Historically, it's not the way Nintendo works. 

I guess it was a bit different during 3ds era since they had 2 major console lines - handheld and TV based, but now everything seems to riding on the hybrid model. 

[radicaldude]

5 minutes ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

 

Think from Nintendo's perspective. 

You've a pretty solid and increasing fan base for Switch currently. Do you want to alienate all those and release a mid-gen refresh with higher horsepower, again to refresh the whole gen in 2023 ? 

Basically you're alienating your fans twice - once by releasing a beefier model in just 4 years, and then again by releasing an entirely new console in another 2 years. 

Add to it the complexity of development for 2 different SKUs now - currently it's one size fits all. What would be the cost implications ? 

They might already be in the process of a console refresh sooner than later, and hence this release might make sense from an incremental perspective. 

Ofcourse, everything is speculative, but from a company's perspective, they would rather devote time, money and people on bringing a new console soon than half heartedly pushing new specs, making it obsolete again after 2 years. 

Historically, it's not the way Nintendo works. 

I guess it was a bit different during 3ds era since they had 2 major console lines - handheld and TV based, but now everything seems to riding on the hybrid model. 

 

 

I was thinking more in terms of how mobile companies refresh their models. Specially as the base hardware/chipsets are so similar. 

 

Ps- I view the switch line majorly as a handheld device. Hence I'm not going into  upgrades the dock needs. 

[b!T]

27 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

however in 3dss case, the new Nintendo 3ds has more power and a better 3d screen. I think some games are exclusive to the new 3ds as well. 

 

Not a lot of exclusive high profile games except for xenoblade and fire emblem. 99% of games works on old models.

 

You can refer this,

 

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/games-that-are-exclusive-enhanced-on-the-new-3ds.1177455/