Numbers, MTx, and Fiscal sales discussion thread

[VelivolusDas]

I don't know what to say. ?

 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by VelivolusDas
Added the second set of tweets

[dylanjosh]

Hope Epic wins this suit. At least they've brought to light how hypocritical Apple is with its own mission statement against IBM and what its doing today. 

[PhantomShade]

7 minutes ago, dylanjosh said:

Hope Epic wins this suit. At least they've brought to light how hypocritical Apple is with its own mission statement against IBM and what its doing today. 

 

Every rebel takes on the characteristics of the big bad he was fighting once he becomes big/dominant/takes power.

Works for the smoll startup vs incumbent big business, small guerilla rebel leader group vs big bad goverment etc.

 

Stalin was once a 2rs bankrobber shaking his fist impotently at the chad Tsarist Russia, and their secret police, and army oppressing teh people.

When he became the bossman of Soviet Russia he did mostly the same things.

 

Google  was doing DoNt bE eViL jhumlas when it was smaller, even pulling out of China because censorship was too much, and it was conflicting with muh values muh principles and all.

Today they are continuing to try to make a Chinese censorship compliant search engine, at the time when China is pretty much the BIG BAD in public perception, and their employees have been protesting over said cheeni search engine

 

Apple is no exception.

Btw Epic will lose this suit i think, and it will have repercussions since they have got the boot from the mobile market altogether now :/

 

[Right]

39 minutes ago, dylanjosh said:

Hope Epic wins this suit. At least they've brought to light how hypocritical Apple is with its own mission statement against IBM and what its doing today. 

I can tell you  if Epic wins this, Mobile Gaming/App business will get fked.

 

The kind of frauds which will happen in IAP,  will make people to ask developers to go back to payment system by Apple/Google.

Today, if you or your kid makes an accidental purchase on Apple, they reverse it for you in matter of minutes, your CC information is absolutely safe.

 

And let's be real, Epic is a very small fry in Mobile gaming, there are companies who are in this business for decades.
There are companies like Supercell, Playrix, King, Zynga...who make a lot more money than Epic makes with Fortnight. They never had issues with Apple/Google taking cuts, because they knew that what Apple/Google can give them in return, which is worth more than that money.

[Ne0]

also, that ppl trust google/apple with their cc info, not the individual vendors themselves.  A good amount of funds has gone into building those platforms and the continuous effort it takes them to keep it clean etc., , Epic just wants to use all the good that the storefronts offer, all the work they've done to make it trustworthy and punt them on payout, while claiming to be a victim.  They are not in the right here, IMO !

[VelivolusDas]

Meanwhile, Sweeney's tweets continue to 'justify' why this is a very good decision amd it'll help all of mankind. Sheesh!

[Guest]

 

Quote

Apple told Epic that its access to development tools would be cut off if the company did not “cure your breaches” to Apple’s licensing agreement, according to a letter from Apple that was shared by Epic. Failing to do so means that Apple will terminate Epic’s inclusion in the Apple Developer Program, a membership that’s necessary to distribute apps on iOS devices or rely on any Apple developer tools. The company won’t be able to notarize Mac apps either, a process that could make installing Epic’s software more difficult or block it all together. Apple requires that all apps are notarized before they can be run on newer versions of MacOS, even if they’re distributed outside the App Store.

 

Damn. 

[VelivolusDas]

Yep, it could potentially be ugly.

 

 

[Guest]

Apple terminates Epic Games' account on App Store

 

Nice 

[Guest]

Epic Games is once again asking the court to force Apple to reinstate Fortnite after it claims daily iOS Fortnite players has dropped by over 60%. ?

[roun90]

32 minutes ago, Joe Cool said:

Epic Games is once again asking the court to force Apple to reinstate Fortnite after it claims daily iOS Fortnite players has dropped by over 60%. ?

 

 

Seems Epic is realizing that Mobile Gamers are True Casuals. Very few will go to all the trouble of APIs and what not, and most will simply just jump to another convenient game as they pass the time in between doing other things.

 

Good!! About time they learned they cannot create a monopoly and rip off other people stores, trampling over their hard work. Heck, Apple basically told them that they were not even interested in Unreal Engine, if they did not adhere to rules. That would have been a major burn.

 

In this instance, kudos to Apple for upholding their rules and principles, and ensuring a fair marketplace for all. If Epic wants to skip Royalties so badly, let them release their own smartphone, their own OS and their own store (or only the latter two if they want to ride off on Chinese Phones)

[Right]

There isnt bigger Chu's than Epic in this.

I think it is time for Tencent to teach them basics about Mobile publishing.

 

Let's take the game publishing in China, because of the rules they have set for foreign developers, their share comes to around 31%, just 31%, compared to 70% that they get on Appstore, Google Play. Yet every major mobile developer makes a beeline to get their game publishee in China.

Supercell's major rev comes from China and despite Tencent has major stake in Supercell, they publish the games through Yoozoo in China and take a paltry amount overall.

 

Tim should call Big Tim, say sorry rather than doing chu giri like this.

[i_rock098]

 
 
In this instance, kudos to Apple for upholding their rules and principles, and ensuring a fair marketplace for all. If Epic wants to skip Royalties so badly, let them release their own smartphone, their own OS and their own store (or only the latter two if they want to ride off on Chinese Phones)

If only Apple would let users install apps outside the app store like android does this problem would not be there. You don't want to pay apple 30%, fine don't. Get your own appstore and take 100% cut.

But restricting only apple approved apps/games to be run on iphone is monopolistic which they should be called out against.

Even macs allow you to install software outside the app store so why restrict the same on iphone?

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk

[PhantomShade]

12 minutes ago, i_rock098 said:

 

 

If only Apple would let users install apps outside the app store like android does this problem would not be there. You don't want to pay apple 30%, fine don't. Get your own appstore and take 100% cut.

But restricting only apple approved apps/games to be run on iphone is monopolistic which they should be called out against.

Even macs allow you to install software outside the app store so why restrict the same on iphone?

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk
 

 

 

Monopoly ! 

 

They "restrict" it because they can, it is their platform after all.

and more importantly, it still sells.

If it wouldn't sell and they zero'd onto the reason being that you can't install software out of app store, they would have allowed sideloading( what a meme term lmao  ) on iMaal.

In fact the rumor is the new ARM powered Macbooks will also have no "sideloading" features, no install from .dmg now, only App Store for u

 

 

Most people are NPCs who wouldn't bother with apks and all on mobile unless you are a 

 

 

Every single shitty trend in electronics becomes mainstream because consumers just consoom, they don't care about all these things

 

[i_rock098]

Fortnite tried that too and eventually had to launch on play store because they weren't making enough money. 
Regarding the app store part, Apple can very well deflect any criticism about it in the name of security. 
Basically, EPIC wants to sell through Google play store because of its reach but also doesn't want to pay for it. 

Which was kind of expected. None of the causal crowd is going to download it outside the play store. But they still had the option to launch their own store and sell the apps there and get 100% revenue.

Google/apple are right in charging 30% commission of apps on their store. Epic is right in asking apple in allowing other appstores to be installed in iphone.

This way both can be happy. Apple/google can charge what they want. Epic can create a competitive game store against them and keep 100% of their revenue if they so want And compete against them.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk

[CarbonCore]

2 hours ago, i_rock098 said:

 

 

If only Apple would let users install apps outside the app store like android does this problem would not be there. You don't want to pay apple 30%, fine don't. Get your own appstore and take 100% cut.

But restricting only apple approved apps/games to be run on iphone is monopolistic which they should be called out against.

Even macs allow you to install software outside the app store so why restrict the same on iphone?

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk
 

 

 

IIRC they tried to pull that sh*t with Macs a while ago and got major backlash. They learned that computer users do not like monopolistic environments, even Mac users.

[i_rock098]

It's a slippery slope though. By this logic, even Nintendo and Sony should allow third party stores. 
No incentive to creating a platform like this. 

Dedicated gaming device sold at a loss vs general purpose consumer device sold at mouth watering profits. Not an apple to apple comparison pardon the pun.

Also in that case MS should not allow office on mac, Google should not allow google search/maps on anything but android/chromebook. Amazon should not allow prime/Kindle on anything other than Amazon devices.

Open platform is something that benifits the consumers at the end.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk

[i_rock098]

 
IIRC they tried to pull that sh*t with Macs a while ago and got major backlash. They learned that computer users do not like monopolistic environments, even Mac users.

Exactly. And serves them right. It's a general purpose consumer device. I should be allowed to install whatever I want on a device I paid full price for.

Not really sure why iphone users accept that. Customizing your device should be a basic right. Be it installing whatever apps you want. Whatever game you want. Whatever launcher. If I want to have a space between two app icons i should be allowed to have space between them.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk

[roun90]

21 minutes ago, i_rock098 said:

Exactly. And serves them right. It's a general purpose consumer device. I should be allowed to install whatever I want on a device I paid full price for.

Not really sure why iphone users accept that. Customizing your device should be a basic right. Be it installing whatever apps you want. Whatever game you want. Whatever launcher. If I want to have a space between two app icons i should be allowed to have space between them.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk
 

 

There is a difference in both Google and Apple. Google is an open source platform and it's Android OS is used in all phones - whether they be a Samsung Phone, a Mi phone or some shitty Chinese brand no one has ever heard of. Apple, on the other hand, does not sell iOS on anything other than it's own phones. Apple Phones are not for the masses and they cater only to their own customer-base.

 

So Google's Control is only limited to it's own Play Store. If you violate terms, you will be banned from the play store, but you can still use other stores/APIs because the phone itself does not belong to Google. Apple on the other hand - has essentially created a specific mobile for it's own specific set of customers. They completely curate what happens on their own platform. Samsung/Xi/Whatever does not manufacture iPhones. This is similar to Consoles vs PC. Consoles themselves belong to the manufacturers (Sony/MS) and whatever happens inside is up to them. Whether consoles are being sold at loss/dedicated gaming device - all is immaterial. It's their own strategy and vision.

 

If I have to give an analogy, what Google, PC etc. do is provide interior designing services to malls while owning 1 shop inside it. They can decide what to do with their shop, but nothing else. What Apple/Sony/MS does is essentially create their own clubs and provide goods and services to it's members (Their Fans). What will be allowed inside that club is up to them. They curate the quality of goods and service provided to their fans. They ensure that they only provide what their fans want. And the fans love it, just as fans of exclusive clubs and exclusive malls love their membership and don't want to see a real estate store inside their health club for example.

 

The platform as a whole belongs to Apple/Sony/MS. The platform does not belong to Google/MS in case of mobiles/PCs. Hence, they are legally entitled and it is their right to ensure what is allowed in and collect what is their due. What Epic did is essentially try to rob Apple and make the iOS itself public domain, since if Apple does not protect their rights in 1 case, courts will rule that Apple will lose their rights in all cases and everyone will set up their own stores and Playment Platforms. It's like allowing every single person to squat in a property which you are giving for rent for free.

Edited September 7, 2020 by roun90

[PhantomShade]

16 minutes ago, i_rock098 said:

Exactly. And serves them right. It's a general purpose consumer device. I should be allowed to install whatever I want on a device I paid full price for.

Not really sure why iphone users accept that. Customizing your device should be a basic right. Be it installing whatever apps you want. Whatever game you want. Whatever launcher. If I want to have a space between two app icons i should be allowed to have space between them.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk
 

 

Unless Apple users stop buying iMaal because of this they won't change, simple as that.

Most iMaal buyers are the biggest casual NPCs around, they just don't care about installing apps from wherever they want, those who do the MY WIDGET MY CHOICE thing jailbreak their iThings.

Corps only see $$$$, they don't care about sentimental my device my choice memery until it has an effect on their bottom line

 

This is an overall shitty trend though, soon enough it will effect PC/Macs also, once they somehow get cloud apps to work( for things like movie editing, 3D CAD stuff, photoshop you get the gist )

 

30 minutes ago, CarbonCore said:

 

IIRC they tried to pull that sh*t with Macs a while ago and got major backlash. They learned that computer users do not like monopolistic environments, even Mac users.

 

People use computers to work, phones and tablets are devices to consoom content.

Like gaming consoles