radicaldude Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, hsk_colossus said: Consoles have held back pc gaming for ever… Ofcourse. Atleast in recent times. That's the reason both the new consoles have tried to mimic a mid gen pc with ray tracing. Can any console match the raw power of 3090 combined with a threadripper? Pcs however give a lot of option(s) to get the best performance out of a given hardware. On consoles it is mostly plug and play. That's the reason the lower denominator might impact the overall performance/development of a title. This is the precise reason we have never ever seen different powered skus in the same generation from other companies in the history of console gaming. Edited July 27, 2021 by radicaldude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b!T Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, TRMNTR said: Everyone understands that old gen hardware holds back next gen. However, it's not always true and it depends on the game and the devs. Not sure when the conversation moved to last gen (oh yeah, Cyberpunk and Control ) but the main discussion is about next gen consoles and Steam Deck. To make blanket statements like "XSS will hold back XSX/PS5" is rather stupid without understanding what compromises are being made during development. I don't think any XSX/PS5 game has been held back till now. If anything, developers have chosen to compromise the XSS version to keep their vision intact on XSX/PS5. Am I saying that no game will ever be held back because of XSS/SD? No. It will be rare though. Minimum requirements or not PC will always be the lowest (and highest) common denominator. Regardless of the minimum requirements, the games are always built will lesser performing machines in mind. Why? Because they constitute the majority of systems out there. That's all what I was saying. If you see my initial post on this topic, I didn't mention anything about CP or control because a) I haven't played either b) I don't own any nextgen console. My comment was in response to a blanket statement that devs will release two versions always and that is not true because that's not what has happened throughout gaming history. Whether it will happen with PS5 or XSX/S remains to be seen. Also all these are gamers discussing in a forum man, none of us are game developers but that should not stop us from discussing what might have been or what might be. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panopticon Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 46 minutes ago, radicaldude said: Many. Control being one of them. The previous gen versions had frame rate issues. Though GoT looks stunning on the PS4, those who want to experience developers true artistic vision should definitely pick up the ps5 directors cut. I don't think it would be a bland graphical update. There would be many different elements, not possible on a PS4 system these are incorrect examples as you are talking about cross gen cases where the entire system/architecture is different give relevant examples, from the same gen (all current or all next) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggr happy ss Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Panopticon said: these are incorrect examples as you are talking about cross gen cases where the entire system/architecture is different give relevant examples, from the same gen (all current or all next) He is reading another article or on the phone with ank ,someone will surely reply back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panopticon Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 33 minutes ago, b!T said: Witcher 3 was held back due to consoles. CDPR outright admitted that they can't afford to make W3 for only PC and hence fidelity was compromised due to consoles involved. Also iirc , COD recoil effects were damped down because IW or Treyarch could not make it work properly for controllers where in counter strike has proper recoil or rather had and this is something I read years ago. No personal experience though. Crysis 2 was held back because of consoles. If you have played Crysis 1 and 2, you will know what I am hinting here. Monster hunter generations is 30 FPS on switch because they designed it for 3DS which cannot do 60 FPS. I think there is a mod which can unlock FPS but not sure. Now thinking from the other end of the spectrum, Rocksteady stated that they initially thought to release Arkham knight on PS3/360 as well but had to cut entire batmobile stuff to do that so they scrapped the last gen versions and focused on current gen. our debate is regarding consoles only and whether some consoles of the same gen hold back other consoles, so provide other correct examples also, the holding back should be specifically about the scope of the game and not resolution or fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRMNTR Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, b!T said: That's all what I was saying. If you see my initial post on this topic, I didn't mention anything about CP or control because a) I haven't played either b) I don't own any nextgen console. My comment was in response to a blanket statement that devs will release two versions always and that is not true because that's not what has happened throughout gaming history. Whether it will happen with PS5 or XSX/S remains to be seen. Also all these are gamers discussing in a forum man, none of us are game developers but that should not stop us from discussing what might have been or what might be. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. My post was mostly a summation to all the ongoing comments. I actually agree with what you said earlier. Modern engines (not all) are designed to scale well. There will always be some device "holding back" another device (be it old gen or next gen) but it's very different from what people think is happening. Example: Technically, you could design a game for Switch Deck that maximises it's RAM (16GB) for 720p. That game would never run as is on next gen consoles as the RAM budget would shoot up when they target higher resolution. Here XSS/XSX/PS5 is "holding back" Switch Deck -- which is a stupid thing to say, honestly. In short, what I'm saying is, let's have a discussion instead of making these blanket statements (again, not directed at you). Edited July 27, 2021 by TRMNTR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panopticon Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 47 minutes ago, AnK said: How would one get “examples” when the developers are designing games with the lowest denominator in their inseption Such a stupid thing to wait for to get proof that something is being held back we wait for proof because we don’t have in-depth technical expertise, experience and knowledge about console hardware as a developer let me know if you have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radicaldude Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Panopticon said: these are incorrect examples as you are talking about cross gen cases where the entire system/architecture is different give relevant examples, from the same gen (all current or all next) Only xbox has experimented with this (lower powered skus in the same generation) and I'm waiting for a proper aaa first party exclusive from them since 2019 to make comparisons. right now though, only Cyberpunk comes to mind, which you are not accepting. I'm sure more examples will emerge with time. Ps- if you compare the halo infinite reveal from 2020 with the coalition tech demo, you'll partly understand what I was saying. This is my assumption, but maybe the demo was optimised for series s and that's why the graphics looked crap. This coalition tech demo was developed for and ran on a series x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panopticon Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) The speculation is xss, a console which is of the same generation as xsx and ps5, is holding back the scope of games due to less ram and only “less ram” so my question is give examples of consoles any generation (it can be any generation) having held back other consoles of the same generation specifically regarding scope of games Edited July 27, 2021 by Panopticon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b!T Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, Panopticon said: our debate is regarding consoles only and whether some consoles of the same gen hold back other consoles, so provide other correct examples also, the holding back should be specifically about the scope of the game and not resolution or fps. I am sorry, mate. I can't find any examples for your streamlined , selectively defined "holding back" criteria I will say let's wait and see. After all this gen has just started. By your statement no games this gen will be held back by XSS because devs always release two versions to counter it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggr happy ss Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) Enough guys lets have discussions on this topic again on the 3rd day in the 2nd week of next month. @AnK feel free to change the date but do inform us. Edited July 27, 2021 by triggr happy ss 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRMNTR Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Panopticon said: The speculation is xss, a console which is of the same generation as xsx and ps5, is holding back the scope of games due to less ram and only “less ram” so my question is give examples of consoles of the same generation (it can be any generation) having held back other consoles of the same generation specifically regarding scope of games Again, it's not as simple as this. This can happen if a dev is targeting min specs that surpass XSS. Even in that scenario, people with much less capable PCs are always able to run these games after tweaking the settings. Why? Because, the games are almost always designed with the lowest common denominator in mind. That could be the XSS, that could be a very mediocre PC. I think this enter gen, devs will have to work around the limited RAM on XSS but I'm hoping that in most cases, they will end up compromising on the XSS version rather than the XSX/PS5 version. For example, Doom Eternal doesn't support Ray Tracing on XSS as that would've increased their RAM budget. Metro supports it but compromises elsewhere. These compromises are a part of the development process especially when so many SKUs (infinite PC SKUs included) are involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnK Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 32 minutes ago, hsk_colossus said: Consoles have held back pc gaming for ever… The ultimate truth thanks for saying that,though you were the least expected guy to talk sense The whole issue arises when someone decides to launch a weak a*s console moving towards the next gen & then binding it with the stronger brethren So the developer is now forced to develop for it if he wants to be part of that specific ecosystem & the weak a*s machine is ending up being the one holding the strongest one it could have been the stronger brethren or some other device which could have been the lowest denominator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radicaldude Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 The speculation is xss, a console which is of the same generation as xsx and ps5, is holding back the scope of games due to less ram and only “less ram” so my question is give examples of consoles any generation (it can be any generation) having held back other consoles of the same generation specifically regarding scope of games . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggr happy ss Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, radicaldude said: . Khatam ,bye bye ,tata ,goodbye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnK Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Just now, triggr happy ss said: Khatam ,bye bye ,tata ,goodbye Mujhe pata tha tu Rahul Gandhi ya uska rishedar he hai IQ level dekh ke mai saalo pehele samajh gaya tha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radicaldude Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 You seem to skip on the fact that devs have system level access and can tweak the settings to their heart's content to opimtise performance. You, the consumer don't have to bother with sliders because developers have already done that. So, no this not the precise reason for anything. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnK Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) Fidelity aside things like scale of level & AI design can’t be toggled, it’s designed & put together in inception stage I believe things like RAM,GPU,Memory bandwidth play an important role in these aspects But anyway….. Edited July 27, 2021 by AnK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsk_colossus Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 17 minutes ago, AnK said: The ultimate truth thanks for saying that,though you were the least expected guy to talk sense The whole issue arises when someone decides to launch a weak a*s console moving towards the next gen & then binding it with the stronger brethren So the developer is now forced to develop for it if he wants to be part of that specific ecosystem & the weak a*s machine is ending up being the one holding the strongest one it could have been the stronger brethren or some other device which could have been the lowest denominator ya consoles have truly held back gaming… crysis pushed the graphical landscape when it was launched… nowdays games target consoles and therefore are limited graphically.. So the whole issue is not that Xbox series s has held back gaming… it’s that consoles have held back gaming… so all you console peasants, get a f**king PC and let’s push the gaming landscape forward 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatsInTheName Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, hsk_colossus said: ya consoles have truly held back gaming… crysis pushed the graphical landscape when it was launched… nowdays games target consoles and therefore are limited graphically.. So the whole issue is not that Xbox series s has held back gaming… it’s that consoles have held back gaming… so all you console peasants, get a f**king PC and let’s push the gaming landscape forward #Sir2LakhRupeesWhen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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