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35 minutes ago, WhiteWolf said:

Ignore option sucks, it keeps telling me that you have choose to ignore certain person. I want completely block all notification regarding that person on the page 

I actually find it funny . I can see i am ignoring him - and see others are making fun of him :P . And I don't have to read his crap and don't get upset myself . 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

...And the jokers are back on the thread as well. :rofl:..

Say some nasty things about me too, radi :blush:

I'm feeling left out. 

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5 hours ago, Kumar123 said:

It's pure logic. Games used to take around 3 years to develop but now they take 5+. Why? Has the gameplay changed drastically? Most of these newer AAA games play the same as their 7th gen counterparts in my experience. Graphics seems to be the only big difference and therefore has to be the culprit. Another proof of this are of course, the AA games that cost less and take less time to develop than AAA games. We can see that they're not that different from AAA games in terms of gameplay and differ only in the graphics department which again solidifies the assumption that the extra money and time that AAA studios burn go into making the game as pretty as possible.

You are free to not engage in convos you don't feel qualified to participate in, but there's no reason for you to ask others from doing the same.

So the reason is for requiring much time is not only graphics.

It's also the complexity of engines, physics, render system, the complexity of mechanics in game. Not only animation, mocap cleanup, photogrammetry, art, vfx or graphics alone. But every aspect is more time consuming because of details. Even the sound design as well. They also require much, much more time because of more tracks, the complexity of it, the channel and mixing requirement of it. And, more quanity+quality of the each pipeline.
Even on programming, testing..everywhere, games nowadays depends on so many sub-engines that it require much more complex integration than ever before. Plus complex piece of softwares generates more bugs, that alone takes huge amount of time to fix. 

Simple funda, complex problems are solvable when given time. 


I dunno how much you pay attention to the details of the games, but people who does, will find more complexity...not only in graphics, but everywhere. A 360 era Gears of war won't be playing same way as Gears 5. Likewise, a PS3's Demon Souls won't be similar like a game such as Elden Ring. Or a PS3 era RDR1 is not on the same lvl as RDR2. Not only interms of graphics, but also mechanically and functionally. All of those games are from the same respective companies that made them.
Do you think they are same, and only the graphics that has been advanced??
 

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46 minutes ago, SaiKO said:

So the reason is for requiring much time is not only graphics.

It's also the complexity of engines, physics, render system, the complexity of mechanics in game. Not only animation, mocap cleanup, photogrammetry, art, vfx or graphics alone. But every aspect is more time consuming because of details. Even the sound design as well. They also require much, much more time because of more tracks, the complexity of it, the channel and mixing requirement of it. And, more quanity+quality of the each pipeline.
Even on programming, testing..everywhere, games nowadays depends on so many sub-engines that it require much more complex integration than ever before. Plus complex piece of softwares generates more bugs, that alone takes huge amount of time to fix. 

Simple funda, complex problems are solvable when given time. 


I dunno how much you pay attention to the details of the games, but people who does, will find more complexity...not only in graphics, but everywhere. A 360 era Gears of war won't be playing same way as Gears 5. Likewise, a PS3's Demon Souls won't be similar like a game such as Elden Ring. Or a PS3 era RDR1 is not on the same lvl as RDR2. Not only interms of graphics, but also mechanically and functionally. All of those games are from the same respective companies that made them.
Do you think they are same, and only the graphics that has been advanced??
 


I agree regarding the improvement in sound. Games these days do sound so much better. Not sure how long the process takes though. But aren't physics, render system, "details" etc. related to graphics? I mean yes, innovative physics can enhance gameplay if done right but how many examples of that do we have in AAA games? It's still about the usual obsession with realism from what I have seen.

You keep saying that there are a lot more complexities. Can you elaborate on what these complexities that aren't related to graphics and 'realistic' physics are?

To answer your question, there have been advancements in all areas yes, but I feel like the biggest differences have been in the graphics department and that the most effort is still put into making the game look pretty and realistic as possible. By the way, wasn't a big criticism of RDR2 the fact that it played like all the other Rockstar games? So, I assume that it will be on the same level of RDR1 if you take away the graphics and all the realistic AI mannerisms that seem like window dressing.


 

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34 minutes ago, Kumar123 said:


I agree regarding the improvement in sound. Games these days do sound so much better. Not sure how long the process takes though. But aren't physics, render system, "details" etc. related to graphics? I mean yes, innovative physics can enhance gameplay if done right but how many examples of that do we have in AAA games? It's still about the usual obsession with realism from what I have seen.

You keep saying that there are a lot more complexities. Can you elaborate on what these complexities that aren't related to graphics and 'realistic' physics are?

To answer your question, there have been advancements in all areas yes, but I feel like the biggest differences have been in the graphics department and that the most effort is still put into making the game look pretty and realistic as possible. By the way, wasn't a big criticism of RDR2 the fact that it played like all the other Rockstar games? So, I assume that it will be on the same level of RDR1 if you take away the graphics and all the realistic AI mannerisms that seem like window dressing.


 


 

dude you are arguing with a developer 😂

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28 minutes ago, hsk_colossus said:


 

dude you are arguing with a developer 😂

Looked him up and he seems to be a Lead Character Artist at a AAA studio. So, not a dev, right?

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4 hours ago, Mr. Comingle said:

Say some nasty things about me too, radi :blush:

I'm feeling left out. 

 

You have already been banished from society long back. So, shoo..

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8 minutes ago, Kumar123 said:

Looked him up and he seems to be a Lead Character Artist at a AAA studio. So, not a dev, right?

 

Which area of video game creation are you working on at present?

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3 minutes ago, quixote_1989 said:

Which area of video game creation are you working on at present?

 

Senior Games Analyst :P

 

Jokes aside, @SaiKO how much impact do you think will something like UE5 have in terms of speedy development?

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26 minutes ago, Kumar123 said:

Looked him up and he seems to be a Lead Character Artist at a AAA studio. So, not a dev, right?

A character artist is the one working on making the character look as good as possible. Isn't that an integral part of gane dev or you think the detailed graphics are created by an AI. 

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1 hour ago, Kumar123 said:


I agree regarding the improvement in sound. Games these days do sound so much better. Not sure how long the process takes though. But aren't physics, render system, "details" etc. related to graphics? I mean yes, innovative physics can enhance gameplay if done right but how many examples of that do we have in AAA games? It's still about the usual obsession with realism from what I have seen.

You keep saying that there are a lot more complexities. Can you elaborate on what these complexities that aren't related to graphics and 'realistic' physics are?

To answer your question, there have been advancements in all areas yes, but I feel like the biggest differences have been in the graphics department and that the most effort is still put into making the game look pretty and realistic as possible. By the way, wasn't a big criticism of RDR2 the fact that it played like all the other Rockstar games? So, I assume that it will be on the same level of RDR1 if you take away the graphics and all the realistic AI mannerisms that seem like window dressing.


 

Sure. I'll explain some of the complexities in general term. Excluding the graphics, lookdev, animation and whatnot. Note, this is general terms, and applicable to general game development.

1. Open world speed tree mechanism and procedural object placement system used to be simple instances with some variables, with little to no physics in them. Now open world games weather system and the environment reacts upon that, ie more dynamic. This is to make world more believable. Environment and setdressing is more complex due to this, and player interaction is more elaborated. This is to make world more immersive, afterall game is an interactive and immersive media. Some of the engines even support dynamic object placement and remembers that in the world, such as BGS games, their engine could be janky in many area, but their engine do remembers the object matrix based upon world space. 


2. Specially SP games focuses much more functional development of the game mechanism. AI development takes a huge chunk of time, it's not simple NPC or enemy path in game lvl anymore where enemies will only move to certain area or simple follow their moveset. These AI are given toolset of reaction which changes based upon player's function trigger. Games like TLOU2 spent a huge CHUNK of time to develop this. Thus, the enemy is more believable than it's predecessor.  Again, details! As in emulating humanlike behaviour.

3. Hitbox detection and dynamic hitbox system. Nowadays every games has dynamic deformation and hitbox generation, and it's also getting much detailed over time. Again here, comes the AI reaction trigger that I mentioned in my last point. Look up in TLOU2. Enemy reacts differently based upon where they were being shot at, and with which weapon. All these details are, to push the immersion. 

4. In RPG, the stat change is not just a simple hitbox number increase now, it has effects implied. Plus, there are more attributes that shows visible changes and playstyle nowadays. And it requires much robust balancing the toolset and testing. With each iteration, every RPG games do this. Divinity 2 plays better and has more diversity in classes than Divinity 1, thusly. 

5. Third person Player movement is not like stick figure anymore, doesn't have 8 directional moveset like old times. It's 360 degree dynamic physics based set. Where player and npcs reacts upon world event trigger. Although it's rig and animation engineering but still, the functionality of characters are more fleshed out.


6. Gameplay! Yeah in a simple layman's term it's shooting or something. But these blunt looking functions also have much more nuances than you can imagine. Decal, hitcone and falloff calculation, particle generation, splash hit based on object detection and many many other functionality relies on it nowadays for most games.

7. Now, testing.....I feel bad for testers nowadays because they get the bashing by game communities and gamers....it's a stressful job and complex games require all these thousands of permutation and combination to go through to filter out everything...and even then it's not fully possible, specially for Open world games. More complex the game, more time require to find and report issues.


I could go on. But this took me abit of time to write down and I have other things to do. Thanks.
 

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29 minutes ago, quixote_1989 said:

 

Which area of video game creation are you working on at present?

Is that the best you can do?

"Hey, I think games will take less time to develop if devs don't focus on graphics so much for X and Y reasons."

"You're not a game dev lololol"

Either reply with sound arguments of your own or don't bother at all.

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43 minutes ago, Kumar123 said:

Looked him up and he seems to be a Lead Character Artist at a AAA studio. So, not a dev, right?

I'm as much developer as a programmer or a sound editor or an animator or game tester or a game story writer or a designer.

All of the people work towards to develop a software.

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Just now, SaiKO said:

I'm as much developer as a programmer or a sound editor or an animator or game tester or a game story writer or a designer.

All of the people work towards to develop a software.

I see. Will reply after reading the previous comment.

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48 minutes ago, Kumar123 said:

Looked him up and he seems to be a Lead Character Artist at a AAA studio. So, not a dev, right?

 

No offence but that's a pretty ignorant statement to make. Developer is a very general term and generally refers to everyone that's involved in developing the game. Not just the programmers.

 

 

2 minutes ago, SaiKO said:

I'm as much developer as a programmer or a sound editor or an animator or game tester or a game story writer or a designer.

All of the people work towards to develop a software.

 

This.

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30 minutes ago, TRMNTR said:

 

Senior Games Analyst :P

 

Jokes aside, @SaiKO how much impact do you think will something like UE5 have in terms of speedy development?

Only one. The engine has toolsets which are already developed or being developed by Epic. So the company doesn't need to spend much resources on the engine. That can reduce some significant time. But again, if the scope of the game is bigger then it will require much time. 

Like if CP2077 took 5-6 yrs to make (active development) in RedEngine alongside with it's engine development. Given same scope for the game in it's time, it could reduce 1 yr max...but then again, developing certain functions on certain engine do require much time....so all based upon scopes and goal of the development studio and their projects.

Only good thing, they will have EPIC to help them develop toolset FOR THEM.

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Just now, TRMNTR said:

 

No offence but that's a pretty ignorant statement to make. Developer is a very general term and generally refers to everyone that's involved in developing the game. Not just the programmers.

 

 

 

This.

It was a question, not a statement.

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