The Stock Market thread

[rushab oswal]

1 hour ago, Animus said:

As in...how?

Worst returns even bad than index etfs. they lure you in with fancy numbers. no proper customer service.

 

10 minutes ago, kkapoorr said:

Is this thread open to discuss MFs as well? My job doesn't allow me to invest in the markets except via MFs. So started 3 SIPs and investing about ~20K per month for 2 months now. 

Check out parikh parakh long term equity fund. transparent guys . i do both stocks and MF's . 

[LordSpymaster]

Yeah I have a SIP in that fund. 

[rushab oswal]

1 minute ago, Ne0 said:

1. Investing in individual stocks vs mutual funds vs sip ?

 

I do both. 30% MF 70% Direct.

 

2 minutes ago, Ne0 said:

3. How to choose a mutual fund / SIP plan ? Right now, I do a google search, but maybe there's a better (more scientific way) ?

 

Depends on your risk appetite. IF very conservative go with hybrid large caps , if aggressive go with mid/small cap funds.  also never choose a fund based on past returns.

 

4 minutes ago, Ne0 said:

4. Heard from a colleague about something called Index funds, which are apparently the safest forms of equity investment while giving much better returns than FD.  Is this true ?

HE's not wrong . Almost most of the time INDEX Funds have given better returns than FD. always have and INDEX FUND ETF or INDEX FUND MUTUAL FUND.

[rushab oswal]

1 minute ago, kkapoorr said:

Yeah I have a SIP in that fund. 

Niceeeee. DSP funds are good and transperent too. Also check EXPENSE RATIO of funds and EXIT LOAD if any.

[LordSpymaster]

4 minutes ago, Ne0 said:

 

woah woah buddy, sounds very interesting, but complete n00b here .... can you explain that in regular people language , pls  ?

 

Also, a general question to the forum, Can some good , kind hearted fellow explain the most basics of trading questions as below ?

1. Investing in individual stocks vs mutual funds vs sip ?

2. Tax implications of #1 ? And does it make sense to invest in tax saving equity funds, if your LIC+PF takes up most of 80cc ?

3. How to choose a mutual fund / SIP plan ? Right now, I do a google search, but maybe there's a better (more scientific way) ?

4. Heard from a colleague about something called Index funds, which are apparently the safest forms of equity investment while giving much better returns than FD.  Is this true ?

 

1. Individual stocks: You need to do your research, may need active management, full control by you over investing decision; MFs: More passive in the sense you find a good fund house and a well managed fund with historical returns-you can invest and sit back. Reevaluate every 6m or so. SIP: A way to invest in MFs
2. IIRC MFs have LTCG>1yr exempt upto 1L. Stocks also have it >1yr.
3. Can begin here for MF research: https://www.valueresearchonline.com/ 
4. Index funds basically replicate an index (Nifty/Sensex) and rebalance - similar risks to MFs.

[Bird Bird Bird]

For MF, I hate SIP. I find that it's just the MF's way of keeping the money tap open. 

If you aggregate/list the stocks of the 1-2 MFs you want to invest in, say on Kite, you can easily predict the trend and find out the days you want to invest rather than blindly go for SIPs. 

SIP in a way is still a lumpsum investment at the end of the day, on a predefined date, just without any study, in a senseless way. 

People might say it instills discipline, but I think it instills laziness, were you're believing that MF marketing hype and not studying in your own, and finding correct times to enter. 

In the market, timing is everything. MF is just another way to invest in the market. 

[Bird Bird Bird]

7 minutes ago, adity said:

Timing of few days doesn't matter in a long term horizon. There is nothing easy about timing the market. 

 

SIPs are a good way of participating in the economics growth without specific expertise. 

Agree to disagree. 

 

SIPs are a way to keep the money taps open for MFs. 

[LordSpymaster]

Market timing is the most unreliable thing imo

[Bird Bird Bird]

25 minutes ago, adity said:

So you're saying every person should keep cash in their account and wait for markets to drop and invest lumpsum in MFs? 

You have to understand that its unrealistic for most people. 

 

If a person cannot be bothered to look at the market and invest wisely, why invest in the market at all ? When you're investing in a MF at a set pre determined interval, you're basically investing in the underlying stocks with that money, blindly, not looking at their market rate compared to other parameters for that day. 

Would you ever do that when you're investing in a silo stock ? You will wait for the right buying opportunity rather than picking a day blindly to invest whatever you want. 

What the MF marketing has remarkably done is project SIP as the end of all financial woes. 

Anybody who cannot be bothered to look at the underlying stocks and invest wisely should do PPF and safer securities instead. 

[Bird Bird Bird]

Just now, kkapoorr said:

Market timing is the most unreliable thing imo

Market timing basically means when the stocks meet your investing criteria, not investing on a set day just because a marketing person said so. 

I'm not saying you go bottom fishing. 

[Bird Bird Bird]

59 minutes ago, adity said:

Hot take right here. 

What is this elitism, lol. Investing decision is only dependant on one thing - required return and expected risk tolerance. On a long enough timeline the index will always give better returns than risk free investments except where your economy sucks in which case you're f**ked anyways. 

An sip is basically dollar cost averaging and takes care of volatility in the markets. The investment criteria is based on the fund you choose and the fund manager picks stocks based on that criteria. He doesn't wait for you to deposit money to buy stocks. Arre birdy boy just deposited 10k, let's buy 5 reliance shares. 

Mutual funds allow diversification even with amounts as low as 1,000 a month. 

 

Every Tom dick and Harry thinks they're some big shot of the markets until their undervisfied stonks only go up portfolio eats dirt. 

Consistently finding good stocks is hard as sh*t and MFs are good way to participate in the markets. 

Btw even PPFs and Banks invest your money somewhere just not in stocks. 

 

As I said, agree to disagree. 

 

No, the fund manager is not waiting for Birdy to buy 5 reliance shares, but the NAV value varies based on the value of those shares for that particular day. 

 

Diversification is not dependent on MFs. You can diversify the portfolio yourself by choosing and investment both in stocks and other securities - and again, I am not against MFs, I am against SIP. 

 

I read somewhere, and it stuck me hard - SIP is not systematic investment, it is automation. You are still investing as a lumpsum, but without checking whether that day of investment is correct or not. Again, we have been fed that it's about discipline, whereas it more about you taking the lazy way out and be stuck with "LONG" term investments. 

 

How many investors even check the portfolio of stocks a MF holds ? How many check the variations which happen over a period of a quarter, year etc ? How many check the holdings and their percentage ? Most people are in a hurry to start a SIP as MF Sahi Hai. Win for marketing, loss for any common sense. 

 

PPFs generally invest money in government securities, and some ownership now is going to equity. But they guarantee you a fixed return vs the volatility of the market,, which is super important for people who buy into the SIP hype without checking underlying basics. 

 

I am NOT a fan of Pattu, but one of his articles captures this decently: https://freefincal.com/sip-not-systematic-investing/

 

Also, I never said I am a market expert - else I would be doing this full time instead of working a job. Just observations, here and there. Musings, if you will. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Bird Bird Bird

[speedy]

17 hours ago, rushaboswal said:

 

I read they got some approvals from US/FDA . but management is not what they say.

 

Never understood the concept.

https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/call-option-basics/

Excellent starting point for F&O beginners

[speedy]

15 hours ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

Mrs Bector allotment out. Didn't get anything. 

same here, even missed burger king

[Bird Bird Bird]

1 minute ago, speedy said:

same here, even missed burger king

Same. 

 

Let's see which is the next blockbuster IPO. I think NSDL, NCDEX and LIC. 

[Pacifier]

Just my two cents

 

I think SIP is still good for someone who is NOT YET into MFs, Stocks / beginners. it has nothing to do with Return % but more so about building a savings mindset , early in your career. 

 

For someone new, on the job,  who don't yet have a savings mindset for long term , he may definitely not remember to constantly track the market and make the purchase. That mindset only builds over time (or if you have someone in your friends/ family to suggest on how to manage money early in your career) .

 

Of course people can still choose other such options  - plain old RD, PPF, VPF  but if you say you cannot withdraw for a locked period (i think its 15yrs for PPF right?) , it is a No-No for many. 

 

I still regret not starting something like SIP(even for 1000/- pm)  a decade ago as i  didn't know the importance of saving (or) the thought gets lost and we end up wasting/spending the money.  (I would have happily taken even 1% return from such an early investment now). 

 

Doing thorough analysis and timing your MF/stock purchase is definitely a  better option once you know how the market works, but SIP is definitely NOT a bad option and infact, it helps some noob investors get on the bandwagon.

 

[rushab oswal]

58 minutes ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

NSDL, NCDEX and LIC. 

Ah Forgot CDSL. Evergreen company , be it bear markets or bull markets.

[KunjanPSD]

Seeing how BK performed after it got listed, 

picked up Bector's shares in the morning. Squared off the position just few mins ago.

That's 16% return right there.

People who got allotment are really lucky.

[Bird Bird Bird]

17 minutes ago, kunjanp said:

Seeing how BK performed after it got listed, 

picked up Bector's shares in the morning. Squared off the position just few mins ago.

That's 16% return right there.

People who got allotment are really lucky.

Dad got allotment. Sold at 103%. Just 1 lot though. 

[KunjanPSD]

5 minutes ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

Dad got allotment. Sold at 103%. Just 1 lot though. 

That's quite good. Retail is always gonna be 1 lot lottery.

[rushab oswal]

36 minutes ago, kunjanp said:

That's quite good. Retail is always gonna be 1 lot lottery.

Yes. Chances are better with HNI.