The CryptoCurrency Thread

[Bird Bird Bird]

In my naive understanding, the actual use of cryptos right now is:

 

1) Payment for banned items like drugs etc. via TOR. While Silk Road got shut down, there are 100s of active sites now, bigger than SR, allowing for all kinds of illegitimate use. 

 

2) Money laundering and tax evasion. For the government, tax evasion is a huge issue, but for average joes like us, i think money laundering is a bigger threat since it deals with the likes of sex trafficking, terrorism etc 

 

3) Speculative trading on coins which actually provide some future value, like BTC, Eth etc 

 

4) Pump and dump schemes like MILFcoin etc. No value, buzzwords, seems harmless, uses celebs for credibility, value reaches billions of dollars in a day, gets dumped, and investors are f**ked. 

 

Sure, the people who invest in speculative coins are just idiots, primarily gambling away their money. But look at the kind of crypto adverts seen recently during IPL etc, and you can understand how easy is it to sway people to invest. Extremely shrewd advertising, and the exchange owners can just run away overnight in case sh*t hits the fan. The blame will then fall on the government - why didn't they do things to save the investors ?

 

The actual crypto enthusiasts are a small bunch. But the asset is too tech dependent and unstable to be used freely for large scale economic transactions. 

[radicaldude]

Energy security is another area which many don't consider while talking about cryptos. Unless we extensively use renewable forms of energy to mine and validating transactions, it might pose as a threat to energy security of a nation. This currency certainly isn't "green"

[mohit9206]

https://prsindia.org/billtrack/draft-banning-of-cryptocurrency-regulation-of-official-digital-currency-bill-2019?s=09
 
 
I think the govt wants to bring in an RBI backed digital rupee (or indian crypto). 

Lol what a joke

I get all the decentralised love for crypto, but genuinely, for a typical middle class salaried person who would pay their taxes on time (there's no other option), what benefit does crypto provide except speculative trading ? 
Blockchain is not crypto. So let's not talk about the underlying tech. 
What are the legitimate uses in day to day life ? 
With so many new fangled coins been promoted on twitter etc, it is extremely easy to manipulate and earn millions out of other's pockets. 
I'm not saying the stock market is a saint, but you do have a fundamental background to study. Whether you do it or not is entirely different. But what about most cryptos ? The overnight sensations just use a bunch of buzzwords and celebs to promote, cash out and run. 
What value is Shiba coin providing except gambling after Musk's endorsement ? 
How many people really understand how cryptos work ? 
Strictly my opinion, but it is gambling. Not blaming the technology, but what are the real legitimate uses of cryptocoins ?

Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation. If you hold bitcoin, inflation won't affect you.

Agreed with everything here. 
 
And everyone seems to be missing the real point with cryptocurrencies. It's fundamentally down to bitcoin vs the rbi backed currency. So bitcoin backers, whats the advantage of bitcoin over an official coin ? hmmm...

The whole point of bitcoin is it is decentralised which is the main advantage so government cannot control it. Yes some whales and big institutions can manipulate it but bitcoin has already proved itself to be a great asset. More and more companies in the world accept bitcoin as a payment method. Usa also official allowed trading in bitcoin. More and more big companies are adopting bitcoin.

[radicaldude]

9 minutes ago, mohit9206 said:

 

Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation. If you hold bitcoin, inflation won't affect you.


 

 

 

The post was about cryptocurrencies in general and not on bitcoin in particular. 

 

 

Also how can something so volatile can be used as a hedge against inflation? 

[KunjanPSD]

2 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

 

 

The post was about cryptocurrencies in general and not on bitcoin in particular. 

 

 

Also how can something so volatile can be used as a hedge against inflation? 

How can an asset which derives its value from fiat (which itself is not inflation proof), hedge against inflation?

 

For ex: Let's say a Tesla Model 3 costs $60k and for that they charge 1 BTC.

Now next day because of inflation, the same car costs $65k, in all probability, it will no longer cost just 1 BTC to buy the same.

 

And this was quite evident from their policies as well.

Tesla offers full refund if one doesn't like the car but acc. to their policies, if one paid by BTC and demanded refund then that person will only be refunded in BTC if current BTC/USD value was lower than the original.

 

Otherwise they'll be refunded in cash.

 

Doesn't look like a hedge to me.

[mohit9206]

 
 
The post was about cryptocurrencies in general and not on bitcoin in particular. 
 
 
Also how can something so volatile can be used as a hedge against inflation? 

It may be volatile just like the stock market but the trend is always up. Also yes am specifically referring to bitcoin. Altcoins are something i believe no one should touch and mostly just scam.

[Bird Bird Bird]

27 minutes ago, mohit9206 said:

 

 

Lol what a joke



Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation. If you hold bitcoin, inflation won't affect you.



The whole point of bitcoin is it is decentralised which is the main advantage so government cannot control it. Yes some whales and big institutions can manipulate it but bitcoin has already proved itself to be a great asset. More and more companies in the world accept bitcoin as a payment method. Usa also official allowed trading in bitcoin. More and more big companies are adopting bitcoin.

 

 

Bitcoin or any other crypto is a "hedge" only because it's linked to fiat. And how is it a hedge if it is unstable enough to be moved with simple tweets and messages ? What is the inherent value of the coin (not to be confused with its technology) ? One can safely assume that 99% of the masses holding or trading cryptos don't understand the tech behind it - they do it because these coins are volatile enough to give you quick gains in a few hours or days, and they see everyone else, including celebs pimping it. 

Again, these tradings derive value from fiat. 

How would you pay for a loaf of bread if the intrinsic value of the currency used is not fixed ? Is it 1 BTC ? 2 BTC ? 5 BTC ? Who gets to decide ?

 

Decentralised - excellent buzzword for coins, and a game changer for the blockchain. But how is the decentralisation helping crypto get into the hand of masses ? The tech is complex, the coins are unstable, they don't have any inherent value, are linked to fiat, and a simple internet disconnect makes the notional asset useless. 

 

21 minutes ago, mohit9206 said:

31 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

 
 
The post was about cryptocurrencies in general and not on bitcoin in particular. 
 
 
Also how can something so volatile can be used as a hedge against inflation? 

It may be volatile just like the stock market but the trend is always up. Also yes am specifically referring to bitcoin. Altcoins are something i believe no one should touch and mostly just scam.

 

You can't compare stocks to cryptos. Stocks have fundamentals - and I know many investors ignore them, but that's their fault. You can read and try to understand the business, and be a part of the business journey via purchasing a part of the business via stocks. Bottom line: There is a business model behind every stock, good or bad, doesn't matter, but we also have a clear look into their balance sheets, qaurterly results, future growth potential, capex, opex etc. 

 

What visibility does anyone has over crypto, except what you see on a trading platform ? Dime a dozen sites keep on pumping speculation. 

 

Large business houses have come in on the game since there's money to be made. They can auto trade, like they do on stocks, and drive the prices up or down. Being decentralised does not work here (it helps in payments over the blockchain - but it does not change the perceptive value of the coin - that is decided by traders). 

[Bird Bird Bird]

 

I agree with many points, though he did answer some questions like a true crypto defender. The actual use is blockchain, the tech behind the coins. 

And if we start regulated exchanges, it'll be so much better. 

Also, as he said, crypto is a store of value, not a medium of exhange. The point he didn't say is the store of value is determined by the underlying fiat. 

Would definitely invest in BTC/ETH if exchanges get regulated, purely for trading. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Bird Bird Bird

[rushab oswal]

As a lot of people said I get the tech but i dont get why its valued at what its valued. Some would say "You'all are saying this because you missed making money in bitcoins and others" And i agree , i missed it but i still dont see bitcoin anything other than a speculative asset with no backing.

[radicaldude]

1 hour ago, rushaboswal said:

As a lot of people said I get the tech but i dont get why its valued at what its valued. Some would say "You'all are saying this because you missed making money in bitcoins and others" And i agree , i missed it but i still dont see bitcoin anything other than a speculative asset with no backing.

 

 

 

It's akin to barter system. If someone wants to, he/she can take Bitcoins for providing you with goods and services. 

 

However he would want to cash it out with "real money" as soon as possible. That's how money gets laundered. 

[Shantz]

I developed an AI model some time ago to check whether to sell a coin or not. You can check it out in these turbulent times: https://timetosellcrypto.shantanugoel.com/

[Bird Bird Bird]

1 hour ago, Shantz said:

I developed an AI model some time ago to check whether to sell a coin or not. You can check it out in these turbulent times: https://timetosellcrypto.shantanugoel.com/

 

F u c k i n g hell dude ! Why don't you monetize this ? 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[radicaldude]

The "app" got its inspiration from [emoji116]

[Animus]

2 hours ago, Shantz said:

I developed an AI model some time ago to check whether to sell a coin or not. You can check it out in these turbulent times: https://timetosellcrypto.shantanugoel.com/

lol.....says Yes to everything..haha

Edited November 24, 2021 by Animus

[AnK]

6 hours ago, rushaboswal said:

As a lot of people said I get the tech but i dont get why its valued at what its valued. Some would say "You'all are saying this because you missed making money in bitcoins and others" And i agree , i missed it but i still dont see bitcoin anything other than a speculative asset with no backing.

It’s just a glorified hawala bro 

only reason Western world promoted it so much was it made it easier for third world money to be brought into their economy.

 

Like every other commodity it grew in value coz of the demand.

The more ppl invested in it to port money the more it’s value grew. 
 

It’s a nightmare for the stability of economy of countries like India & China. 
 

That’s why both trying to curb it.

it will crash harder than bubbled stock & real estate at one point.

Edited November 24, 2021 by AnK

[Bird Bird Bird]

6 hours ago, AnK said:

It’s a nightmare for the stability of economy of countries like India & China. 
 

That’s why both trying to curb it.

it will crash harder than bubbled stock & real estate at one point

 

I don't think this is true. Crypto has massive market share, approaching trillions of USD. It has shown consistent (and ginormous) growth over the last decade. As long as fiat is stable, crypto has proven to be an excellent store of value. 

The acceptability, while not great, is only increasing day by day - specially in western nations. 

Obviously, the main charm behind are the different blockchain tech behind major cryptos. 

What is really shady in my opinion are the unregulated exchanges. Most people gambling in crypto use the exchange as both a trading platform and a wallet. These exchanges, so far, have no regulation. Many of them ask for KYC, but do we know how they store our sensitive info ? Do they have minimum liquidity requirements in case there's a crash and people start withdrawing money in large numbers ? What's stopping them from closing the exchange for days or weeks, trapping people's wallet in the name of server issues etc ?

If there's healthy amount of regulation to ensure exchanges cannot run as fly by night operations, and major cryptos are taken as asset class (linked to fiat, of course), traders or investors won't be taken for an ill fated rise, and the amount of money flowing into the crypto market will keep on booming. 

It still doesn't answer the question on what is the intrinsic value of a coin ? But I don't see any doomsday scenario tbh. Cryptos are here to stay, whatever be the case. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Bird Bird Bird

[radicaldude]

If and when govt starts regulating cryptos, it would become similar to any other form of digital transaction, though would be more secure and fast (due to blockchain). 

 

Original motive of crypto would be lost. 

[AnK]

4 hours ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

 

If there's healthy amount of regulation to ensure exchanges cannot run as fly by night operations

Everything you said is absolutely right except that this part is not really as easy to atain anymore.

 

If at the very beginning western world had openly tried to make it a regulated portal like any other e-commerce trade then life would have been much easier but the unnatural boom & demand it saw would have never happened. 
 

It’s very importance comes with the fact that it gives you a chance to store money & possibly even trade it without going noticed by your sovereign nation. 
 

The more nations now try to regulate it the more it’s importance will fall & a lot of ppl(politicians & bureaucrats) within the system are in knee deep into it. 
 

Ppl like Indian PM know the danger of of such a setup & that’s why he is trying to speak against it at the world stage rather than banning it outright from within. 

[radicaldude]

How easy it is, to launder wealth using crypto. 

[Pacifier]

14 hours ago, Shantz said:

I developed an AI model some time ago to check whether to sell a coin or not. You can check it out in these turbulent times: https://timetosellcrypto.shantanugoel.com/

The gig is up

 

txt.innerHTML = "Warming up AI bots...";

setTimeout(() => { txt.innerHTML = "Getting data..."; }, 1000);

setTimeout(() => { txt.innerHTML = "Computing...."; }, 2000);

setTimeout(() => { txt.innerHTML = "Almost there...."; }, 3000);

var answer = "YES";

 

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pure gold