The Last of Us : Part I

[Kumar123]

12 hours ago, Kumar123 said:

Do you...actually believe this?

Imma copy paste a write up I had written while discussing The Last of Us with a friend. Don't want to have a long discussion on this because I don't have the energy or time, so don't bother replying for that. Spoilers for TLOU1 and TLOU2 ahead.

 

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I don't think anyone was offended by Joel's death. Ellie being playable and Joel dying in the second game were things almost all of us anticipated since we knew how dangerous the world of The Last of Us was from the first game. What people were hurt by was how his death happened. Brutally beaten to death like a dog by the daughter of some NPC from the original game. Yes, you could see it as ballsy writing, but when you look at the history of the development of *The Last of Us*, the motivation behind this becomes questionable.
 

Basically, during the development of the first game, even though the writing of the game was a collaborative process by both Bruce Straley and Neil Druckmann, Bruce had the final say in everything since he was the game's director and the more senior developer. For example, The Last of Us was originally going to be about Tess chasing Joel and Ellie across the country for revenge. Bruce deemed this idea to be too unrealistic and dark, and changed it to what we got. Neil had said after the release of the first game that he had a tendency to go too dark and it was the team that reined him in.

Then after Bruce left and Neil became the headman for the sequel, he brought back his original idea of chasing someone across the post apocalyptic country for revenge and went really dark. So, it makes you wonder how much of the brutality of Joel's death was to strengthen the narrative and how much of it was Neil not caring about a character that was not completely his and him wanting to go as dark and gory as possible whenever he can.

I actually could look past this but what I can't forgive are the retcons. Mainly, the one involving the final chapter of the original game.

In the first game, the Fireflies sedate Ellie and prep her for a surgery that'll kill her, without her consent. Whether she would have agreed to this or not doesn't matter as they didn't even ask her if she was okay with it and also because from the previous conversations between Ellie and Joel, it was clear that she had planned to go back with Joel after helping out the fireflies. Not to mention the fact that the hospital setup fireflies had wasn't up to the mark and the possibility of them developing a vaccine wasn't strong.

Let's look at this from Joel's perspective. He lost his partner Tess, slowly opened up to Ellie and developed a father-daughter bond with her that helped him reconcile himself to overcoming the loss of his daughter Sarah, and completed the impossible task of getting Ellie across the post apocalyptic country to the fireflies, while nearly killing himself in the process.

And what does he get? The fireflies tell him that they wouldn't let him see Ellie and that they're going to kill her. They also ask him to leave and don't let him take his bag, effectively sending him to his death. They were basically killing his 'daughter' and him. So, Joel did what we all wanted him to do, kill these motherf**kers and get Ellie back. How does this remotely make Joel a bad guy, especially in the world of The Last of Us, where there are often no good or bad people, just survivors? I don't think his actions were questionable and morally grey like some people say. He did the right thing.

In the end, we see that Joel doesn't regret his actions and has his own justifications for it. We also get Ellie's ambiguous "Okay" in the end, which according to many people including Ellie's voice actress Ashley Johnson, meant she had seen through Joel's bullshit but was fine with what happened.

What do we get in the second game? Apparently, Joel was a horrible murderer and Ellie had naively believed his lie. The whole narrative of the game relies on this assumption which is basically a retcon. They even changed Joel's design to make him look like he's constantly weighed down by guilt, essentially making him a different character.

This is what I had the biggest problem with and the reason I just can't see the game as the canonical sequel to the first game.

Thought I'd add my thoughts about remakes to this. Again, this was written in another discussion, so don't feel like engaging with the possible replies/retorts. Copy pasting here.

"Art is never finished, it's just abandoned. And however, it's abandoned and then shown, and those things, with their flaws are what affect people."


The original is what became a classic and one of the greatest games of all time. Even minute changes can change the experience people had while playing the first game. When it comes to this remake, they drastically changed how the game looks including the art direction, and the character models and their expressiveness, the improved graphics etc. They even made small changes to some of the cutscenes like with the angles and pacing.

The experience you get while playing this remake will be radically different than the original experience that made TLOU an instant classic when it was released back in 2013.. And this new version is going to kill the original for the reasons I stated before. Improved graphics, marketed as the definitive experience, availability on PC etc.

Now, you may ask if games shouldn't be remade at all. And this is where the question of the 'need' for remakes comes up. A remake is warranted only when the original is dated in such a way that the modern players will not be able to get into it unless definite improvements are made to bring it up to modern standards.

In this scenario, the newer game won't kill the original as the original wasn't being played much anyway and the remake is an effort to get new players to be interested in it. Also, when a new player looks at the original and the remake, they will be able to tell easily that both will be completely different experiences and that the remake is not a replacement for the original.

This is obviously not the case with The Last of Us remake because it is a glorified remaster of the original which holds up just fine. And that is why I have a problem with it. The incredible experience that I had while I played the original will be erased from history because future generations are going to see the original and remake as the same thing and as a result, most of them would choose to play the remake for obvious reasons.
 

[radicaldude]

30 minutes ago, Kumar123 said:

Thought I'd add my thoughts about remakes to this. Again, this was written in another discussion, so don't feel like engaging with the possible replies/retorts. Copy pasting here.

"Art is never finished, it's just abandoned. And however, it's abandoned and then shown, and those things, with their flaws are what affect people."


The original is what became a classic and one of the greatest games of all time. Even minute changes can change the experience people had while playing the first game. When it comes to this remake, they drastically changed how the game looks including the art direction, and the character models and their expressiveness, the improved graphics etc. They even made small changes to some of the cutscenes like with the angles and pacing.

The experience you get while playing this remake will be radically different than the original experience that made TLOU an instant classic when it was released back in 2013.. And this new version is going to kill the original for the reasons I stated before. Improved graphics, marketed as the definitive experience, availability on PC etc.

Now, you may ask if games shouldn't be remade at all. And this is where the question of the 'need' for remakes comes up. A remake is warranted only when the original is dated in such a way that the modern players will not be able to get into it unless definite improvements are made to bring it up to modern standards.

In this scenario, the newer game won't kill the original as the original wasn't being played much anyway and the remake is an effort to get new players to be interested in it. Also, when a new player looks at the original and the remake, they will be able to tell easily that both will be completely different experiences and that the remake is not a replacement for the original.

This is obviously not the case with The Last of Us remake because it is a glorified remaster of the original which holds up just fine. And that is why I have a problem with it. The incredible experience that I had while I played the original will be erased from history because future generations are going to see the original and remake as the same thing and as a result, most of them would choose to play the remake for obvious reasons.
 

 

 

dude you should stop posting your crap on this thread. No one wants to read your take on this title anymore. 

 

Wait for the v/s thread to open to post your views (which have become stale now) and Ill then debunk/decimate whatever you are spewing. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by radicaldude

[Kumar123]

51 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

 

 

dude you should stop posting your crap on this thread. No one wants to read your take on this title anymore.

 

Speak for yourself. 

 

Wait for the v/s thread to open to post your views (which have become stale now) and Ill then debunk/decimate whatever you are spewing. 

 

This has nothing to do with PS vs Xbox. Also, I have zero interest in engaging with someone like you regarding this. 

 

[radicaldude]

6 minutes ago, Kumar123 said:

become

 

7 minutes ago, Kumar123 said:

 

 

 

This has everything to do with PS v Xbox. First you had issues with the franchise having a lead character with a particular partner preference. 

 

Then you had issues with the pricing.

 

After that you hoped that the game gets bombed

 

And when the game got 9+ reviews from most outlets, you started questioning the point of the remake. 

 

You search far and wide to post something crap about this title each day. If you dont like it, stop talking about it. And if you have to talk crap on a daily basis, wait for the v/s thread to open. Every couple of hours you post some random crap from the internet, and a majority dont give a damn about it. 

 

Post those in the vs thread. 

[Kumar123]

18 minutes ago, radicaldude said:

 

 

 

This has everything to do with PS v Xbox. First you had issues with the franchise having a lead character with a particular partner preference. 

 

Then you had issues with the pricing.

 

After that you hoped that the game gets bombed

 

And when the game got 9+ reviews from most outlets, you started questioning the point of the remake. 

 

You search far and wide to post something crap about this title each day. If you dont like it, stop talking about it. And if you have to talk crap on a daily basis, wait for the v/s thread to open. Every couple of hours you post some random crap from the internet, and a majority dont give a damn about it. 

 

Post those in the vs thread. 

Ever thought of becoming a scriptwriter or a novelist? Your ability to cook up false narratives is almost impressive. 

 

Not going to address every little accusation but I'll just say this. I've never had an Xbox or even a gaming PC ever. Playstations have always been my only gaming platforms. So, I have no reason to specifically target them or support their 'rivals'. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Kumar123

[Vamos]

10 hours ago, hsk_colossus said:

 

Part II PS5 version for $10 upgrade fee 

[0verlord]

3 hours ago, Vamos said:

Part II PS5 version for $10 upgrade fee 

Part II, Director’s Cut, with 3D audio, haptics and triggers, ray tracing, VRR and fps unlocked, more particle effects, denser volumetric fog, you can see twitching facial muscles and micro hairs on face and body, etc

 

Only $70 

 

Jokes apart, this can very well happen considering same happened to ghost of Tsushima 

only silver lining is this will give ND more budget for next TLOU and UC

[Heaven Angel]

57 minutes ago, 0verlord said:

only silver lining is this will give ND more budget for next TLOU and UC

No, new multiplayer game which was basically free with tlou original. 

[RV1709]

5 hours ago, Vamos said:

Part II PS5 version for $10 upgrade fee 

I hope this happens 

[Kumar123]

15 minutes ago, RV1709 said:

I hope this happens 

You won't pre-order if it's $70?

 

 

2 hours ago, 0verlord said:

Part II, Director’s Cut, with 3D audio, haptics and triggers, ray tracing, VRR and fps unlocked, more particle effects, denser volumetric fog, you can see twitching facial muscles and micro hairs on face and body, etc

 

Only $70 

 

Jokes apart, this can very well happen considering same happened to ghost of Tsushima 

only silver lining is this will give ND more budget for next TLOU and UC

Next TLOU? Good one.

[radicaldude]

12 minutes ago, Kumar123 said:

You won't pre-order if it's $70?

 

 

Next TLOU? Good one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Krazyniks]

3 hours ago, 0verlord said:

Part II, Director’s Cut, with 3D audio, haptics and triggers, ray tracing, VRR and fps unlocked, more particle effects, denser volumetric fog, you can see twitching facial muscles and micro hairs on face and body, etc

 

Only $70 

 

Jokes apart, this can very well happen considering same happened to ghost of Tsushima 

only silver lining is this will give ND more budget for next TLOU and UC

The Director's cut could come with a DLC which would have an alternate ending  . Increase in sales would be anywhere from 3-8 mil 

[RV1709]

1 hour ago, Kumar123 said:

You won't pre-order if it's $70?

 

 

Next TLOU? Good one.

I would. 

[0verlord]

4 hours ago, Heaven Angel said:

No, new multiplayer game which was basically free with tlou original. 

No, next part 3 which continues the SP storyline ahead 

 

I haven’t played any ND MP game add-on yet. They are best at SP stories isn’t it?

[Kumar123]

 

 

This dude's apparently the fastest speedrunner for TLOU. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Kumar123

[Vamos]

9 hours ago, Kumar123 said:

This dude's apparently the fastest speedrunner for TLOU

I still find it funny how these people think they know better and have a better vision for the game than the actual creators who made these improvements. 

 

Original this, original that….

Then just keep playing the original 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Vamos

[dylanjosh]

Are the controller haptic features for this game good?? Seen nobody talk about them

[Kumar123]

4 hours ago, Vamos said:

I still find it funny how these people think they know better and have a better vision for the game than the actual creators who made these improvements. 

 

Original this, original that….

Then just keep playing the original 

Ah yes. Totally forgot that creators can do no wrong. Also, it's single player game bruh. Can't keep playing it forever.

 

[RV1709]

2 hours ago, Kumar123 said:

Ah yes. Totally forgot that creators can do no wrong. Also, it's single player game bruh. Can't keep playing it forever.

 

Just buy the game already. You’ve posted more here than people who bought the game. What makes you keep coming back?  I say fork over that 70 and get it 

[Vamos]

6 hours ago, dylanjosh said:

Are the controller haptic features for this game good?? Seen nobody talk about them

They are well implemented. 

 

I’m a big fan of dialogue haptics in accessibility options.