The News Thread

[Nemo]

yeah.. probably.

[Sa1nT_SoLd1eR]

/Rant Incoming

 

Well if speaking about intricacies SarDar and Sikh are two seprarte Identities altogether, however the terms have been colloquially applied to a turbaned person with facial hairs.

 

SarDar is an interpretation of Persian Words 'Sar' & 'Dar' Sar meaning Head and Dar meaning Hand, so in conjugation the title went to a person who was always ready for battle and literally kept his head on his hand, and was ready to lay his life for a righteous cause at the blink of an eye.

 

In contrast Sikhism is a reiligon which has some borrowed characteristics from Hinduism as well as Islam, and some added unique characteristics of it's own, and is far bigger than just the martial aspect that is often described as the sole characteristic of a Sikh aka Sardar in contemporary times.

 

It is a recorded historical fact that Sikhs alone contributed for 80% of all martrydom during the freedom struggle, and that too when they only contribute to only 2% of the overall populace, however after independence they were given a raw deal for all their sacrifices, first the major part of Punjab went to Pakistan & the trio Gandhi, Nehru & Patel didn't even give a fight. Gandhi was sitting in erstwhile Calcutta when the pact was being signed, another reason why Punjabis donot have the same respect for Gandhi and his ideals, also in the past Gandhi had launched a verbal attack on the 10th guru of Sikhs and called him a misguided patriot including other stalwarts like Shivaji etc, a statement that he retracted later on.

 

After independece Punjab was divided into 4 different states forcing the farmers to share water which was it's Soul and essence:- Punjab is a combination of two persian words, Punj meaning 5 and Aab meaning water (literally meaning land of 5 rivers) now only 2 rivers flow through the state and even part of those have been directed to other states (SYL), and the Malwa region is facing severe drought conditions with underground water levels receeding to 500m and below, Paddy also being the contributing factor

 

Further, no sikh was included in the upper echleons of Power, and not to forget the 1984 riots, and to add insult to injury the constant rhetoric of bad tasting PJ's ruling the roost with a frequent mention to 12o clock (which in fact was a time choosen by Sikh soldiers to attack tyrants under the deep cover of night, and protect the common populace from such tyrants especially in the J&K area aka J&K Brahmans), the likes of which can be found in this forum itself, the Jokes thread is filled with such PJ's made by infidels who have scant respect or cognitive skills to understand what the Sikhs and Sardars have done for the country which we call India.

 

So it isn't rocket science why Sikhs feel the need to get separated from this union, if it wasn't for the geographical & international compulsions, it would have happened a long time ago.

 

Sikhs or Sardars don't need respect for the sacrifices of the past, but what they need in current is freedom from this tag and potrayal (including bollywood and other platforms) of a dimwit that often plagues the public space incluiding this forum and many others (& frankly speaking Sidhu is not helping the cause either).

 

In other news and on the same lines of a constantly disintegrating union http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/congress-leader-killed-in-chhattisgarh-maoist-attack/article4750467.ece

[playstation]

Lol....are you a sardar too?!

 

If not was there any pun intended in that comment

Or like you really really mean that

 

 

My personal opinion

He is an idiotic new sense......not helping anybody

Not even himself

I understand when you call him bit idiotic but the thing is it was still a small movement against these people and tbh ...i respect idiots like this than so called other smart people in this world..

Lol. No I'm not Sardar and neither there was a pun.

Have lot of respect for that community for their sacrifices.

 

I dont believe that our nation has any hope if democracy is allowed to continue as is and politicians continue to nip it like anything.

 

If these has to be a revolution, thousands of suns like him woll be needed jo khud jhulas jayenge Lekin karodo ka bhala kar jayenge.

There is no doubt that this country as whole owns a lot to sikhism and people partcularly from this religion....they have made us proud time and time again ...it is just sad to see that they feel isolated today. Comeon people i think still have lot of respect for them.

 

As for sikh and sardars being made fun of ....well it happens for literally for every caste...region and religion people here in India...there are 1000's of jokhs on muslims also...sindhi's....bihari's etc....you cant really take them in heart . this is something happening to every one...not just one particular sect of people.

 

Also i see these days sikhism is internally in struggle...there is that dera scah soda sect and other kinda of sects..when i was in punjab a sardar ji was telling me about different gurdwara's coming up in places where one;s who built it can go...there is kinda of dalit-upper caste issue happening now.

 

It is natural with every religion i guess...over the years they loose their essence and start going the wrong way...

[playstation]

 

India is a hypocritical society, says Mallika Sherawat

New Delhi: Bollywood actress Mallika Sherawat says she consciously divides time between LA and India because she feels her home country is a 'regressive' society and finds it depressing to see the condition of women here.

"I made a conscious decision to divide my time between Los Angeles, America and India. So, now when I experience that social freedom in America and when I go back to India which is so regressive for women... Its really depressing too see that as an independent women," Sherawat said in an interview to Variety.

The 36-year-old started her career with 2003 release 'Khwahish' and later went on to do Hindi films like 'Murder', 'Pyaar Ke Side Effects', 'Ugly Aur Pagli' and 'Double Dhamaal' among others.

 

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-is-a-hypocritical-society-says-mallika-sherawat/394037-8-66.html

 

 

 

 

Yeh ladkhi mein dum hai joh bhi bolo... ..sach boli...hum log asa hi hai...

[Nemo]

 

 

It is natural with every religion i guess...over the years they loose their essence and start going the wrong way...

 

 

an attempt at revolt and escape by sections of a population, historically opressed and exploited in the name of religion- that too intra religion, with the self proclaimed socially privileged section justifying their supremacy over the 'lower' section by referring to a piece of literature written god knows when or by whome and you explain it as "going the wrong way" , and this i say about all intra religion conflicts. I am not exactly aware about Dera sacha sauda, maybe saint_soldier can elucidate better.

 

sigh. i should know better than to argue with you.

 

anyhoo, religion is quite frankly the very finest of opium for the masses, it may start off for what ever noble reason but soon every religious sect, cult, mainstream, whatever.. turns into brainwash, segregation, both with other religions and with in the religion- hindus have the most ugly example of caste structure, muslims have shia and sunni, christians have mormons, evangelicals, protestants and catholics.

[playstation]

 

 

an attempt at revolt and escape by sections of a population, historically opressed and exploited in the name of religion- that too intra religion, with the self proclaimed socially privileged section justifying their supremacy over the 'lower' section by referring to a piece of literature written god knows when or by whome and you explain it as "going the wrong way" I am not exactly aware about Dera sacha sauda, maybe saint_soldier can elucidate better.

 

sigh. i should know better than to argue with you.

 

 

GTFO!

[Right]

Mohit, you are a sardar?

[playstation]

Mohit, you are a sardar?

No .

[Nemo]

 

GTFO!

 

 

hahaha.. ever the purveyor of charmed eloquence dear playstation.

 

anyway, @ saint. would really like to hear your views about the Dera sect conflict in sikhism now that his box has opened.

[Sa1nT_SoLd1eR]

Fair Warning: those who have a problem with long essays, please skip this post, this is a reply only after nemo wanted to hear my views, also these are just my views (based on my study of various historical texts & my personal experience of interacting with various people (old & young) from all population wise dominant castes [JATS, JAAATS, Dalits(weavers, mazhbis, Cobbler's) of both Punjab & Haryana], etc. and amalgamation of the views expressed by them in reference to historically proven facts)

 

Well as I said earlier Sikhism is a mixture of "GOOD IDEAS" borrowed from Hinduism + Islam + some unique features of it's own, which are not found in other religions. The concept of Saint Soldier is unique to Sikhism as sikhs were transformed into a full fledged martial race in 1699 with the initiation of the Amrit ceremony and it was ordered by the 10th guru for every sikh to be a true Saint and a True Soldier both at the same time:

 

1. A Sikh is not to raise his sword for conquests, but if a sikh sees injustice happening to anyone and stays quiet then the guru shall disown such a sikh, he shall follow the Kshtriya Dharam of always keeping his weapons in prime respect and adorned on his body 'AT ALL TIMES', the sword was not to be called a "Talwar" (made of persian words Tal and War meaning to cut into pieces), and instead was renamed "Kirpan" ( made of Sanskrit word 'Kirpa' and Persian word 'Aan' meaning to shower mercy on someone).

2. A sikh was to learn to read and write, and certain religious texts were made compulsory to be recited everyday which otherwise was only the forte of brahmins.

3. A sikh shall also work for his daily living and shall not follow the path of an ascetic (SAADHU) nor shall he give up family life, rather he is to maintain a balance between both internal and external lives. Work hard for his living and share a part of his earning with the have-nots.

4. He also has to partake in community service (making of free community kitchen (langar system), washing utensils, sweeping floors of community places etc.), this being the forte of lower castes

 

People from any caste, race, creed could join the Khalsa as long as they did all the above

 

So naturally, the first ones' to join such a religion were the most oppressed (Dalits) who already did the 4th point and all the rest 3 were more or less a bonus as the prevalent caste system did not allow them to do any of those things in their own religion (Sanatan Dharam) and hence in the initial period they constituted the majority of Guru's army, the Guru gave them the special title of "Rangretteh guru ke Bete" (meaning sons of the guru).

 

Before the 10th guru passed away in 1708 AD at Nanded, Maharashtra, He declared the Granth Sahib as the eternal guru and the sikhs were ordered to give the utmost respect to the holy book and treat it as a living guru, the 'Granth' was to be religiously opened at the strike of dawn and the page that opened would contain the Guru's Order (Hukam) for every sikh.

 

He also got Lacchman Das, a Kashmir Brahmin initiated into Sikhism, he was an ascetic living in Nanded having achieved a few of the many (namely 18) divine powers (18 supernatural powers have been described in almost every religious text, called 18 Siddhis, including the Vedas, Bhagavd gita etc.) that usually follow a person who sincerely treads upon the path of enlightenment. He tried to use them on the 10th guru and failed to cause harm after which he surrendered to the guru's will. He called himself Guru's Banda ( aka Guru's slave), he was ordered by the guru to march towards Punjab and on the way every sikh shall follow him (that is by Guru's order) and fight a righteous battle against the Mughal oppression and forceful conversion of Hindus.

 

Banda Singh Bahadur in turn was able to conquer much of erstwhile Punjab ( now those areas lie in Haryana & Himachal Pradesh) he was able to put an end to Sirhind's governor (a place of military importance), however he was taken a prisoner in the hills of Nangal (Border of Punjab & HP) after differences started to emerge within the Sikh factions, wherein Banda had started his own sect called Bandai Khalsa, the mughals took advantage of this rift, captured him and took him to Lahore and mercilessly executed (his young son's heart was removed and forced into his mouth).

 

Now what was the importance of giving the above prologue?

1. It was because of Banda's military conquests in Haryana & Punjab (contemporary) with the help of Guru's Sikhs who were predominantly Mazhbi's (Punjab's Manual scavenging castes), cobbler's, Weavers, bonded labourers and other downtrodden castes including the jats (migrant farming population from Afghanistan, who came to India with the advent of Lodhi's and were predominantly Muslims, jats found in Pakistan still owe their lineage to Afghanistan and even the surnames such as butt, Gul are the same as found in the Afghan area, as they migrated towards the heartland their nomanclature and surnames also changed, Haryana Jats now call themselves JAAAT, although most of the Haryanai JAAAT people owe their allegiance to the Kshatriya castes of yesteryears and claim their forefather fought battles on this land and donot prescribe to the view of being predominantly muslims, so there is a certain amount of ambiguity regarding this, but nevertheless they did benfit from the crumbling administration and established themselves as a landowning community).

 

After a series of battles between 1707 -1715, the administration in the Bangar and Punjab area was in shambles and fertile lands were up for grabs and with the jats (~ 55% population wise in Punjab) being physically superior (owing to hard labour accompanied by no restrictions on eating meat), they became landowners who before that worked as labourers in the land. However, the prevalent caste system could not let the Dalits (mazhbi, Cobbler etc castes which are still predominant in the area, ~ 27% population wise in Punjab) make use of this opportunity as centuries of oppression had literally made them redundant, Jats however were more or less immune to the caste system as most of them were Muslims peasants under a muslim rule, so they enjoyed considerable patronage over the peasant Hindu population. So despite making equal if not more scarifices the Dalits got the raw end of the deal, and jats emerged as the landowning community of North India (this is also the roots to why Jats demand OBC reservation in Haryana, they are threatened that the tides are turning and with dalits getting recruited to higher posts in government services, their future is bleak and probably the same that their forefathers did to the Dalits in early 18th century is happening to them in the 21st century, population ratio in haryana is almost equal between Jats & Dalits)

 

2. The idea of laying complete trust in a book as a guru, it's origin and also the problems that followed with people not able to READ (once again caste system playing spoilsport) & understand the meaning of text contained in the holy book and thus requiring the need for interpreters, who again had to be learned men (upper castes) and thus lay the scope of manipulation of masses by misinterpreting texts to suit one's own vested interests.

 

So coming to the Sacha Sauda problem, like many other deras in Punjab & Haryana who took advantage of the loophole (aka need of an interpreter), this is one such Dera, who has been able to galvanise the illiterate masses (mostly Dalits) in the name of religion. His views are mostly borrowed from all other religions which is not a Bad thing. However, In 2007, following an incident in which Ram Rahim Singh appeared in an advertisement dressed in a way which Sikhs said was similar to the tenth Sikh Guru, Gobind Singh. One person was killed in the violence and over 100 injured. This incident resulted in a series of three apologies from DSS.

 

Now the fundamentalists say that he is trying to project himself as a guru, and he prepared "Roohafza" which he then served to his followers, which if you look at it closely is making a mockery out of the social revolution that was started by the 10th guru. Now the Dalits who were a target of oppression by the upper castes, after 1715 AD became an easy target of the now landholding Jats & JAATS, a situation that is prevalent till date, this animosity has been carried over to Deras as well, with sikhism which was predominantly a social revolution for the upliftment of the downtrodden has been much or less occupied by the Jats of Punjab who are in much greater number population wise (55%), the Dalits are again at the recieving end, and even those Sikhs who have come out from the fold of Hinduism and have completely embraced Sikhism are still targetted in villages, and the Deras have cashed on this rift by attracting such people to their Deras. So basically, over all this garb of religion the main root cause is still caste differences and exploitation which is fuelling the hate, and this is not the case with just Dera Sacha Sauda, this is happeneing with many other such Dera's in Punjab & Haryana. Even, in the Doaba area of Punjab district Jallandhar where the population is almost equal between the jats and dalits violence has erupted twice in the past decade itself. (in one such case, quite recently religious leader of Dera Ballian was shot DEAD by armed Sikhs and that too inside a Gurdwara in Vienna, Austria, the gurdwara owed it's establishment to the smaller lower caste Punjabi NRI's, the caste system has even made inroads in foreign lands, where gurdwaras are also segregated and named after particular castes. This Event also made headline news at the time and rioting happened in the Jallandhar area after which curfew was imposed for few days, till the situation got back to normal). however the divide is clearly there with no person from lower caste represented in the SGPC governing body.

 

Sikhism is getting it's fundamentalistic tones owing to this legacy of various castes that now comprise the followers of Sikhism, and with Jats being the dominant caste who owe their lineage to Afghanistan (and we all know the kind of people Afghans were & still are, one look at the Punjabi songs sung by singers like Jazzy B show how this prejudice and feeling of superiority has transcended generation after generation). This segregation in the country side of Punjab where the jats have moved on to become Landowners and even maharaja's (Patiala, Nabha, etc.) after the fall of Mughal Kingdom. However, the Dalits due to the prevalent caste system could not do the same even after sacrifices that were made during and after the guru's time by the lower caste people as well (35 out of 40 who laid down their lives at Chamkaur, where the 10th guru took refuge after abandoning the Anandpur fort were from the lower castes, symbolic of the nature of Guru's martial army which has now been predominantly claimed by the Jats of Punjab as a making of their own, which infact was a joint effort of not just one but people from all walks of life), this has led to factionalism within Sikhism. Wherein the lower castes have started hating the jats and riots have erupted in the past decade itself.

 

This case study is also an example and reason why propotional representation was given greater importance while framing the Indian Consitution over "so-called" educational merit of the candidate. I think the architects of our consitution were aptly guided by these fallacies of history while making that choice. For this is not the case of just punjab or Haryana but more or less every state of the union is plagued by issues owing it's roots to the caste system, be it Rajasthan, UP, MP, Maharashtra or even South Indian states.

[Nemo]

very very informative article dude. utmost respect.

 

thanks for the knowledge. rather sad to see a religion that was made to fight cast based oppression trun into a segregative one in itself, but then again that is the case for all religions. there will always be people who would want power and superiority without working for it and invrnting ludicrous reasonings, often fallung back on god's will to justify oppression.

[Sa1nT_SoLd1eR]

Yup a sad state of affiars indeed, but also a reminder of how deep rooted the problem of caste segregation is inherent to the Indian way of life, that a religion propounded to put an end to the caste system is increasingly getting divided on caste, community basis barely 300 years down the line !!

[Sa1nT_SoLd1eR]

A must read article on the plight of Adivasis, who are being forced to take up arms under the neo-liberal policies of the GOI (both major nationa parties share equal blame for this sorry state of affiars, more so for Congress), it is still not late, there is a greater need to put an end to this copy-paste culture attitude and infatuation with chronic capitalism.

 

Also once again the real 'UGLY' face of corporate Media, where only one sided picture is being shown to satiate one's own vested interests.

 

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-continuing-tragedy-of-the-adivasis/article4756954.ece

[Nemo]

what i find as the main problem in tribal conflict is the lack of rehabilitation once when their land is acquired. I not against development but there has to be a balance, one cannot just willy nilly go and ask and force the natives to leave their abode. Often when land is taken over by govt to be given to corporates, the tribals are given a lump sum and a apartment like residential complex (lets for the sake of simplicity just assume that they ARE given compensation at market rates in all cases, we all know how this pans out IRL) and records are set straight. It is all fine from the buyer and govt's point of view, they have brought land in lieu of monies and housing being provided to previous occupants but what everyone conveniently forgets is that these tribals have no idea about how to go on with their lives outside their centuries old living habitat and habits. They feel stifled in enclosed concrete structures, have no clue about how to go with managing finances or education, have no work experience and ability outside manual labor and thus pretty soon they blow their largesse received from the govt or are duped by con men, making them worse off in all possible meanings- having lost their land, farms and any compensation.

 

no wonder they would turn to Insurgency and Naxals for help.

 

The govt should make a rule that all companies that get tribal land has to employ at lest one member from each displaced household. I am not asking for them to be made supervisors or cashiers from the get go, but machine operators and other non technical blue collar jobs can be done by them if given proper training. Opening of decent schools in vicinity that give education to tribal children and even adults at a subsidised rate and ngos etc that give basic finance management tips to the people will go a long way in winning them over. The corporates will sh*t bricks over additional demands but they are only fair. Development should not come at a cost of human dignity and freedom. As of now general belief of the rest of the indians towards the indigenous tribals is the same that british harbored towards all indians when they came to colonise- that these people are uncivilised and it is our duty to go in their locality and force slap some righteous civilisation in them.

 

 

....

[Sa1nT_SoLd1eR]

I hope restraint is observed by the GOI, otherwise this can blow up into a full fledged civil war if indiscriminate force is used.

 

Extremism has to be handled in a multi-pronged manner, implementation of 5th schedule must be the first step, it can act as a great CBM, but unfortunately both national parties are dependent on corporates who will never allow the 5th schedule to take effect, and from the initial inputs coming from the ground it does seem they have chosen to tread the wrong path.

[CM Sunny]

Legalize the use of Malwares to punish piraters?
wtf are they smoking?

 

 

The hilariously named "Commission on the Theft of American Intellectual Property" has finally released its report, an 84-page tome that's pretty bonkers. But amidst all that crazy, there's a bit that stands out as particularly insane: a proposal to legalize the use of malware in order to punish people believed to be copying illegally. The report proposes that software would be loaded on computers that would somehow figure out if you were a pirate, and if you were, it would lock your computer up and take all your files hostage until you call the police and confess your crime. This is the mechanism that crooks use when they deploy ransomware.

 

It's just more evidence that copyright enforcers' network strategies are indistinguishable from those used by dictators and criminals. In 2011, the MPAA told Congress that they wanted SOPA and knew it would work because it was the same tactic used by governments in "China, Iran, the UAE, Armenia, Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bahrain, Burma, Syria, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam." Now they've demanded that Congress legalize an extortion tool invented by organized criminals.

Read More
http://boingboing.net/2013/05/26/us-entertainment-industry-to-c.html

 

 

[AMG]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertainment/Tabloid/Palika-Bazar-now-an-underground-porn-hub/Article1-1049674.aspx

[playstation]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertainment/Tabloid/Palika-Bazar-now-an-underground-porn-hub/Article1-1049674.aspx

Zodak you keep talking about this market and recommending to everyone....and you know even shop no.... tu sala regular customer hai na??

[Sa1nT_SoLd1eR]

Interesting piece and speculative analysis of the recent spate of events in Chattisgarh, espescially the quoted part

 

Indeed, the history of the Salwa Judum is interesting. In 2005, Mr. Raman Singh and Mahendra Karma — who was killed on Saturday — the then Congress Leader of the Opposition in the Assembly, in a unique burst of collaborative inventiveness, created the Salwa Judum, a vigilante group, to take on the Maoists. By then the State had already ceased to exist in Bastar and its representatives — corrupt policemen, forest rangers and village heads, all exploiters of the Adivasis — were at the receiving end of Maoist ire. That situation changed dramatically after the arrival of the Salwa Judum, which had the backing of wealthy tribal leaders, traders and contractors.

Now ordinary Adivasis, who were being forced into the Salwa Judum by the administration or special police officers (SPOs) — drawn from among young Salwa Judum activists or ex-Sangham members (village-level Maoists) — were the targets. By placing the SJ/SPOs in the front line of the battle against the Maoists, the government succeeded in setting tribal against tribal.

The Salwa Judum never had any clear structure, hierarchy or functionaries barring the man who headed it, Mahendra Karma. Astutely, the BJP allowed Karma to be the Salwa Judum’s public face, leading to his being known, in the early days, as “the 60th member of BJP CM Raman Singh’s Cabinet.” Interestingly, the plan had actually been hatched by the BJP’s Brij Mohan Aggarwal, a former Home Minister. “Raman Singh and Mahendra Karma discussed Aggarwal’s scheme and decided that a bipartisan ‘non-political movement’,” a senior Vanvasi Kalyan Kendra leader had told this writer in 2006, “would make it easier to get funds from the Centre.”

They were right: the Salwa Judum experiment received the Centre’s tacit support.

The BJP divided the tribal population, using the Salwa Judum as an entry point, destroyed Karma, who failed to win a single election since then, either to the Assembly or the Lok Sabha — and wiped out the Congress base. The BJP, which used Karma as a pawn, ended up ruling the roost in Bastar.

The CPI’s Manish Kunjam had even accused the BJP of systematically destroying the political process in Bastar. “The Salwa Judum was created deliberately,” he had told this writer in 2010 “to help the BJP enter a region where the Congress and the CPI had a base. It used the political vacuum to make inroads through its sister organisations like the Vanvasi Kalyan Kendra.”

The Congress was trying in recent months to reverse that trend, with some success.

 

 

Source:- http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/congress-to-train-its-guns-on-raman-singh/article4760430.ece

[playstation]

 

Cooperation with Japan spells trouble for India: Chinese daily

BEIJING: Strategic cooperation with Japan "can only bring trouble to India", warned a state-run Chinese daily following Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's three-day visit to Tokyo.

 

There may be some tacit understanding in strategic cooperation between India and Japan, "given the long-lasting Diaoyu Islands dispute and China-India border confrontation", said an article in the Global Times on Thursday.

 

The article "India gets close to Japan at its own peril" said that "India should keep sober over (Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo) Abe administration's vicious intentions of denying the World Anti-Fascism War as a just war".

 

"East Asian countries that were the victims of the World War II won't indulge Japan. Overheated strategic cooperation with the Abe administration can only bring trouble to India and threaten its relationships with the relevant East Asian countries," it warned.

 

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Cooperation-with-Japan-spells-trouble-for-India-Chinese-daily/articleshow/20362457.cms

 

 

 

 

...sab mein problem hai ....thanks to years of not taking stand they now trying to control our foreign affairs also....New Delhi should send clear signal that this is our matter and Japan is our old friend and ally and we will do what we want.....joh ukharna hai ukharle....