The News Thread

[avkash]

Wasn't that a natural reaction?

 

When your comments are borderline politically motivated, then be ready to hear unforgiving retorts. It's not your business, so stay out of it.

 

I can't believe I am reading this, do you seriously support that comment

 

Also, did everybody miss the news yesterday, the biker who got shot by Delhi Police, I thought we would have a lengthy discussion here about that

[ALPHA17]

Also, did everybody miss the news yesterday, the biker who got shot by Delhi Police, I thought we would have a lengthy discussion here about that

 

Read about it today in the papers, not sure on how to respond. So best is to be mum on topic, if someone wishes to express their views they should initiate the discussion.

[avkash]

let me begin, I think it is a big ruckus if these bikers come to the streets at night, do stunts, blow horns and stuff. Every night, for a number of hours in late night. They act as if the cops are never gonna catch them and do what they will. This is and rightly should be unacceptable.

The cops had to act, they chased them and stones were hurled at them, they chose to retaliate and fired.

 

I am not sure if they fired on the tires or not, but it is really difficult to hit moving targets when you are moving as well. Even in games it is so tough so we can imagine the difficulty IRL.

 

The guy died.

 

To be honest, it is really sad to have happened the way it did, but I think the biker was at a bigger fault here.

[The Wolfy among us]

Agreed that the biker is at fault, but what gives the cops the rights to shoot at him? Indian cops are not NYPD to aim and fire at the tires. Chase him down, he can't run forever right? Call for backup, do something, but shooting at a person just because he was doing a wheelie?

[dylanjosh]

I don't think even NYPD are supposed to do that until they are absolutely sure the person inside is shooting or has already been successfully charged with crimes

[Nemo]

let me begin, I think it is a big ruckus if these bikers come to the streets at night, do stunts, blow horns and stuff. Every night, for a number of hours in late night. They act as if the cops are never gonna catch them and do what they will. This is and rightly should be unacceptable.

The cops had to act, they chased them and stones were hurled at them, they chose to retaliate and fired.

 

I am not sure if they fired on the tires or not, but it is really difficult to hit moving targets when you are moving as well. Even in games it is so tough so we can imagine the difficulty IRL.

 

The guy died.

 

To be honest, it is really sad to have happened the way it did, but I think the biker was at a bigger fault here.

 

Agreed regarding the fault being with errant bikers.

 

Stone pelting, not paying heed to warnings etc gives cops the right to take action in self defense. As per reports here, the officer fired 2 shots in air as a warning but nothing came good, then he shot one at the runaway bike's wheels which got hold of the boy riding pillion because the bike driver either zigged or zagged or did a wheelie, distorting the angles. The boy's death was kind of unfortunate but cops had to do what they had to do. You cant expect policemen in the field to count every single bullet and to maintain unreasonable restrain in using guns when they themselves (or a bystander) are under attack, if you want them to protect you and the law.

 

 

The police should be equipped with non lethal weapons like stun guns, rubber bullets, tasers, long range grapple hooks, etc apart from firearms, in order to bring such hoodlums without risking killing them. Right now we just see the common lathi and deadly firearms with police, nothing in between. Lathi wont do Jack against a moving vehicle so one will have to use gun to defend oneself and apprehend the miscreant. There has to be something in between (and alongwith) the lathi and gun as a potential option too. These bike gangs are not seasoned criminals but at the same time they are big nuisance, putting fellow commuters' lives in danger.

[The Wolfy among us]

Exactly. The cop who fired must be tried in court and his badge should be taken away. Btw, the cops were traffic cops or Crime?

If they were traffic cops, what were they doing with guns, when most of the crime branch has only lathis?

 

And if they were crime cops, where were they doing trying to stop a drunk kid on a bike doing a wheelie, where all I can infer are traffic violations?

[The Wolfy among us]

Agreed regarding the fault being with errant bikers.

 

Stone pelting, not paying heed to warnings etc gives cops the right to take action in self defense. As per reports here, the officer fired 2 shots in air as a warning but nothing came good, then he shot one at the runaway bike's wheels which got hold of the boy riding pillion because the bike driver either zigged or zagged or did a wheelie, distorting the angles. The boy's death was kind of unfortunate but cops had to do what they had to do. You cant expect policemen in the field to count every single bullet and to maintain unreasonable restrain in using guns when they themselves (or a bystander) are under attack, if you want them to protect you and the law.

 

 

The police should be equipped with non lethal weapons like stun guns, rubber bullets, tasers, long range grapple hooks, etc apart from firearms, in order to bring such hoodlums without risking killing them. Right now we just see the common lathi and deadly firearms with police, nothing in between. Lathi wont do Jack against a moving vehicle so one will have to use gun to defend oneself and apprehend the miscreant. There has to be something in between (and alongwith) the lathi and gun as a potential option too. These bike gangs are not seasoned criminals but at the same time they are big nuisance, putting fellow commuters' lives in danger.

 

The cops standby when a guy is chased on the roads and slashed with knives in broad daylight, but they have to shoot to stop a biker? Absurd.

[avkash]

Agreed regarding the fault being with errant bikers.

 

Stone pelting, not paying heed to warnings etc gives cops the right to take action in self defense. As per reports here, the officer fired 2 shots in air as a warning but nothing came good, then he shot one at the runaway bike's wheels which got hold of the boy riding pillion because the bike driver either zigged or zagged or did a wheelie, distorting the angles. The boy's death was kind of unfortunate but cops had to do what they had to do. You cant expect policemen in the field to count every single bullet and to maintain unreasonable restrain in using guns when they themselves (or a bystander) are under attack, if you want them to protect you and the law.

 

 

The police should be equipped with non lethal weapons like stun guns, rubber bullets, tasers, long range grapple hooks, etc apart from firearms, in order to bring such hoodlums without risking killing them. Right now we just see the common lathi and deadly firearms with police, nothing in between. Lathi wont do Jack against a moving vehicle so one will have to use gun to defend oneself and apprehend the miscreant. There has to be something in between (and alongwith) the lathi and gun as a potential option too. These bike gangs are not seasoned criminals but at the same time they are big nuisance, putting fellow commuters' lives in danger.

 

 

THIS

 

Alpha, the guys in the neighborhood called 100 and a PCR van came in. This has been happening for months, the police have done all they could. They have issued warnings in hoardings, in newspapers. They have organized camps to tell people how this is wrong.

 

They were just chasing the guys (close to 40 of them). Then they were attacked, with stones that broke the windscreen of their vehicle.They had the right to fire back, that was all they could do.

 

again, sad that the guy got killed, but he called out for it.

 

imagine if because if these morons, some poor simple guy driving to home at night gets killed. IMAGINE. I have been in situations where I have lost control of my vehicle due to morons like these. I am not even sure ig these are gangsters, or gundas so I cannot even retaliate or shout back. This is absolutely wrong. This has to be stopped,

 

I maintain my stand, the police has the right to shoot if threatened, and they did the right thing. Sad that a guy died, but he was not a great guy to be honest.

[Nemo]

I don't think even NYPD are supposed to do that until they are absolutely sure the person inside is shooting or has already been successfully charged with crimes

 

It is because they have other options to bring the person down w/o killing them.

 

And even then, the rule is kind of sketchy. It really boils down to the common perception of the alleged criminal in question. If the crime is supposedly BIG, like say a bomb plant, then no one would question law enforcement if they act all superman in MoS, not caring about collateral damage.

 

See the following. A civilian video of police raid on the 2nd boston bomber. Keep in mind that at that time the guy was just a suspect and contrary to video's title there was not any shootout per se as the suspect (later confirmed criminal) was revealed to be un-armed and happened to hide in a parked boat with police shooting at him from all sides.

 

 

 

But if the misdeeds in question is something as apparently "innocuously childish" as bike stunts in middle of the road and attempting physical harm at an on duty policeman then suddenly over zealous sections who are unable to understand the dangers of said biker gangs if they havent ever experienced it, put the blame on the govt agencies.

 

 

_

[ALPHA17]

THIS

 

Alpha, the guys in the neighborhood called 100 and a PCR van came in. This has been happening for months, the police have done all they could. They have issued warnings in hoardings, in newspapers. They have organized camps to tell people how this is wrong.

 

Ummm... why are you calling Nemo, me or was that intentional?

But if the misdeeds in question is something as apparently "innocuously childish" as bike stunts in middle of the road and attempting physical harm at an on duty policeman then suddenly over zealous sections who are unable to understand the dangers of said biker gangs if they havet ever experienced it, put the blame on the govt agencies.

 

Innocuously childish stunts that might get other passer bys harmed is not innocuously childish, throwing stones on the police van, not childish. Also, the non-harmful weaponry that you mentioned is crippled by its range and usability. Tazers out of a moving vehicle, rubber bullets are not non-lethal and have a limited range. And a grapple hook on a moving vehicle is a death wish.

 

Also this just might be the case of; Wrong time, wrong place.

[avkash]

you asked that why was police there and not traffic police, that is why

[ALPHA17]

you asked that why was police there and not traffic police, that is why

 

Where?

 

It was Wolfy,

If they were traffic cops, what were they doing with guns, when most of the crime branch has only lathis?

[avkash]

Exactly. The cop who fired must be tried in court and his badge should be taken away. Btw, the cops were traffic cops or Crime?

 

 

oh sorry, it was bharat :|

[ALPHA17]

oh sorry, it was bharat :|

 

No issues. =]

[Nemo]

 

The cops standby when a guy is chased on the roads and slashed with knives in broad daylight, but they have to shoot to stop a biker? Absurd.

 

The media is silent when a policeman (or armed forces or central paramilitary jawan) loses life in any mob attack or is KIA while battling law breakers, yet when some action is taken against criminals that lead to extra judicial killings (mostly in self defense) then suddenly it is termed draconian and terms like 'police state' are thrown around. Abusrd.

 

It is like "damned if they do and, damned if they don't" for our uniformed personnel.

 

You cant generalise all incidents with one brush. Police differs from state to state and even within state. Just because one non uptight policeman didnt use force to chase after knife wielders doeant mean some other cop should be questioned on his use of force in self defense and apprehending a miscreant.

 

 

_

[Right]

I can't believe I am reading this, do you seriously support that comment

 

you call me communal, which is the biggest abuse for me, you have given me license to reply in a way I deem fit.

It is not for one particular comment.

[avkash]

I have never called you communal

[Nemo]

If they were traffic cops, what were they doing with guns, when most of the crime branch has only lathis?

 

 

 

May I know from where exactly are you getting your knowledge of cops 101 ?

Acp and his motley CID gang on Sony ?

 

 

Traffic cops do carry guns, depends on their rank and area they are in. Crime branch theoretically doesnt even have to deal with such street level incidents. It is a specialised unit concerned with organised crime- including, but not limited to white collar offenses. you wont find them chasing biker gangs and rest assured they are well equipped.

 

 

The cop in this case was one in a pcr van. Neither a traffic officer, nor from crime branch. But from regular police, who was alerted by control room when locals diled 100.

 

The lathi wielding image is that of a beat constable, who should be better equipped, no doubt.

 

 

_

[Nemo]

 

 

 

 

Innocuously childish stunts that might get other passer bys harmed is not innocuously childish, throwing stones on the police van, not childish.

 

I know, hence the "" in my post. Most people, parents specially dismiss such acts as- jawan ladka hai...

 

 

Also, the non-harmful weaponry that you mentioned is crippled by its range and usability. Tazers out of a moving vehicle, rubber bullets are not non-lethal and have a limited range. And a grapple hook on a moving vehicle is a death wish.

 

true, but still they provide a non lethal but effective option. Batons are useless in such situations. Cops will have to use guns, the non lethal wud atlest allow them to immobilize someone without overtly and hopelessly risking themselves.

 

Also this just might be the case of; Wrong time, wrong place.