Modgill Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 So Centre have become this desperate ... Centre is already full of cash, its us who are desperate. 1985, ppl paid 30k to get a BSNL connection happily. now people are so desperate that they default of their maruti 800, 4k monthly EMIs, its the people who are getting desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Interesting article on the religion based vote bank politics being played in our country : http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-muslim-question/1184879/2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sa1nT_SoLd1eR Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 A very comprehensive summary of the real political situation of India at present in context of World's political history !! http://www.countercurrents.org/vakumar180913.htm Found this debate very interesting as well !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XILxDAehcM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQxyjJLiBU0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 ^^ That article seems exaggerated with FUD, anyway, its an opinion piece, so can't really comment much on it.... people who hate on Modi, fail to bring up an alternative candidate to vote for .... I know many of my friends who aren't exactly fans of Modi, but are planning to vote for him, just because of the lack of a good alternative !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sa1nT_SoLd1eR Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 ^ Exactly what was said in the article as well as the discussion, it is a text book fascist surge for power wherein personality cult is in the driving seat and the obvious rhetoric becomes if not him then who, it's a text book trap, tried & tested in Germany of 1930's, the answer to your latter question is in those 3 links itself if one cares to read & listen through it carefully, unless of course the ideology hasn't already made heavy inroads into the psyche of the reader/listener. The litmus test of the same being the hostile confrontational attitude that is exhibited by those who are already under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 ^^ ok, so who in your opinion is the most suitable candidate to vote for currently ? Who has the kind of leadership/administrative skills that Modi has ? I'm not brainwashed by hype, there are lot of things that are imperfect in Modi's administration too , but, relatively speaking, compared to the competition, I feel Modi is better bet. The other good candidates, IMO, was perhaps Pranab Mukherjee or Nitish Kumar - both of whom aren't in the race currently ...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sa1nT_SoLd1eR Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 i think i would be pretty stupid to recognize the trap and even tell other about it, and end up falling in the same !!! Who you or anyone else decides to vote for is not the question here, it is a question of what does India stand for !! is it really just about the majority Hindus or the minorities living here, is it just about particular religion, caste, creed & even the country itself, for me the answer to all that is a big emphatic NO, in the end it is about humanity. Hitler did not kill persons of one community, religion, creed or country, what he ended up doing was mass murder of humanity, and that is what will be in my mind when i cast my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 ^^ as always, you are going on a tangential hyperbole right there .... anyway, if you are of the opinion that electing a certain person would case genocides to happen in this country, i very well understand why you wont vote for him ! But what you fail to understand is that, not everyone shares your FUD .... I for one, don't think such a thing would happen .... even if I were to believe it, I think any party in today's scenario is equally capable of making it happen. If everyone takes this into consideration while voting, then I guess we just can't vote for anybody. Almost all current political parties have shed bled in one region or the other and if that's your yardstick to determine the future of india, then the only option is to start a political party of your own. Anyway, what I'm saying is that, instead of asking people not to vote for Modi, how about bringing in an equally good candidate (like Pranab / Nitish) and give people a viable alternative. Rahul is unproven in the area of both administration / leadership, he has not held any public office (like a CM, minister etc), and many people have his doubts on him. And instead of addressing that issue, his detractors beat the same old "secularism" drum which clearly isn't going to help their cause ! You can write as many articles like this as you want, but the truth is, people want to see something in action. If you are going to tell me not to vote for a particular guy, show me a viable alternative, whom I can vote for ! BJP has done quite a good job in hyping up Modi as a savior, while the other parties, not so much in this regard ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sa1nT_SoLd1eR Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 And as I said before in my post, litmus test for who is under, is a confrontational attitude centering around personality cult & forcing anyone opposing in the same pit. Sorry to disappoint but i won't fall for that trap. Accusations are not new to me on this forum or other, neither do they urge me to reply unless of-course it is dragged down to personal assaults. The only way to fight fascism was already mentioned in the links above, the understanding of which is unfortunately missing in one & all across the political spectrum (centre to left parties). But sitting by and not acting is not the answer and come D day i will be there fighting against it, and I am quite hopeful I won't be alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 ^^ you got me wrong there, i'm not asking you to join any cult nor do I care about what your principles are. Its your choice to stick to what you believe in . But when you try to float your ideas across others (by you, i mean in general, ppl who keep telling the general public about "not to vote for XX or YY"), its just not enough to quote analogies or comparisons. You need to present a practical viable alternative, complete with facts. Else your crusade is as pointless as the jan lokpal bill or whatever else that keeps coming every now and then. Think of it like this, many people already believe Modi is their savior , now whether its true or not, only time will tell. But if you are really interested in changing their minds, show them someone else who can give them what they want. But instead, what you are doing is, just asking them to "not to vote". Then the question that naturally follows is "who else?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sa1nT_SoLd1eR Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Well i have never posted asking people to vote for someone or not to vote for someone, neither on this forum or any other, I have always maintained my opposition to the right wing & far right wing ideology and the person/party who has emerged as the one who epitomizes that ideology. Unfortunately the whole political spectrum is flawed in that respect, but that does not mean that everyone is deep in the muck to the same level, there are a few parties who owe their whole existence to right wing ideology & that is why they are called right wing parties, neither is this aspect unique to India, so when it comes to choosing the lesser evil, i will choose factoring in all of that. Secondly, the answer to who will emerge as the alternative is not for 1 or 2 or even 100 people to decide, it will be decided squarely come 2014 by the entire electorate of this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playstation Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Why India’s new border pact with China won’t work http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/VbRYHcM2kc4arWI6aVeHsK/Dancing-in-the-dragons-jaws.html India-China water controversy surfaces Indian geopolitical analyst Brahma Chellaney was recently quoted by the media as saying that “China is engaged in the greatest water grab in history. Not only is it damming the rivers on the plateau, it is financing and building mega-dams in Pakistan, Laos, Burma and elsewhere and making agreements to take the power.” He warned that China-India disputes had shifted from land to water. “Water is the new divide and is going centre stage in politics. Only China has the capacity to build these mega-dams and the power to crush resistance. This is effectively war without a shot being fired.” According to Chellaney, India is in a weak position because half of its water comes directly from China. On the other hand, Sushmita Sengupta, research associate at the Centre for Science and Environment in New Delhi, believes that water availability has declined to such an extent that many parts of India today face a drought-like situation. As a matter of fact, the Indian government is opposing the construction of dams on River Brahmaputra, known as Tsangpo in China, and has gone as far as raising the issue with the top Chinese leadership. The Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh discussed the issue at a meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) Summit in Durban. While the Indian government does not want the Chinese to build dams on River Brahmaputra, it advocates a water treaty or commission to sort out the issue. Meanwhile, according to a Canadian researcher, China could emerge as the ultimate controller of water for nearly 40% of the world’s population. Tashi Tsering, a water resource researcher at the University of British Columbia in Canada, claims the Tibetan plateau is the source of single largest collection of international rivers in the world, including the Mekong, Brahmaputra, Yangtse and Yellow rivers. It is the headwater of rivers on which nearly half the world depends. Meanwhile, figures provided by global institutions reveal that about 2.4 billion people live in ‘water-stressed’ countries such as China. In a 2007 report, the World Bank said that water scarcity and pollution were reducing China’s gross domestic product by about 2.3 percent annually. The statement by Chellaney was an effectively measured effort to bring into the world’s notice India’s alleged woes on water. While the Indian government claims that the Chinese plans could reduce the water inflow into their country, it has nevertheless failed to seriously consider Pakistan’s dilemma. http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-2-209279-India-China-water-controversy-surfaces They are f**king us from all sides and our Pm has gone to lick their a*s.....sala log desh ka... 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well i have never posted asking people to vote for someone or not to vote for someone, neither on this forum or any other, I have always maintained my opposition to the right wing & far right wing ideology and the person/party who has emerged as the one who epitomizes that ideology. Unfortunately the whole political spectrum is flawed in that respect, but that does not mean that everyone is deep in the muck to the same level, there are a few parties who owe their whole existence to right wing ideology & that is why they are called right wing parties, neither is this aspect unique to India, so when it comes to choosing the lesser evil, i will choose factoring in all of that. Secondly, the answer to who will emerge as the alternative is not for 1 or 2 or even 100 people to decide, it will be decided squarely come 2014 by the entire electorate of this country. Need not be .... the outcome of an election doesn't always indicate the alternative that you "could" have supported before you cast your vote, since mostly it'll be the result of political tie-ins and coalitions in the aftermath , especially considering the huge role of local region / caste based politics that happen in our country .... ! It might not even reflect the fact that the majority of the people wanted that person / party to be their PM in the first place ! What I'm pointing out here is , when people keep harping on and on, beating their so called "secularism" drum advising how the humanity is being led to a mass genocide yada yada, little do they go beyond that point , and suggest an alternative ! If you think people are planning to elect Modi because they are all fascists or driven by personality cult, you couldn't be more wrong .... its got more to do with the rampant corruption and the inability of the current govt to do anything about it .... I don't have high hopes that Modi can bring in a drastic change either, but then, voting for the same guys who are accused of rampant corruption time and again just because they "claim" to be secular, and some others blindly believe them to be so, sends a very wrong message. IMO, its kind of like giving a free pass for the future politicians to come , and that's not doing any caste/religion/sect/country any big favors either ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sach4life Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Need not be .... the outcome of an election doesn't always indicate the alternative that you "could" have supported before you cast your vote, since mostly it'll be the result of political tie-ins and coalitions in the aftermath , especially considering the huge role of local region / caste based politics that happen in our country .... ! It might not even reflect the fact that the majority of the people wanted that person / party to be their PM in the first place ! What I'm pointing out here is , when people keep harping on and on, beating their so called "secularism" drum advising how the humanity is being led to a mass genocide yada yada, little do they go beyond that point , and suggest an alternative ! If you think people are planning to elect Modi because they are all fascists or driven by personality cult, you couldn't be more wrong .... its got more to do with the rampant corruption and the inability of the current govt to do anything about it .... I don't have high hopes that Modi can bring in a drastic change either, but then, voting for the same guys who are accused of rampant corruption time and again just because they "claim" to be secular, and some others blindly believe them to be so, sends a very wrong message. IMO, its kind of like giving a free pass for the future politicians to come , and that's not doing any caste/religion/sect/country any big favors either ! So f**king true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM Sunny Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Need not be .... the outcome of an election doesn't always indicate the alternative that you "could" have supported before you cast your vote, since mostly it'll be the result of political tie-ins and coalitions in the aftermath , especially considering the huge role of local region / caste based politics that happen in our country .... ! It might not even reflect the fact that the majority of the people wanted that person / party to be their PM in the first place ! What I'm pointing out here is , when people keep harping on and on, beating their so called "secularism" drum advising how the humanity is being led to a mass genocide yada yada, little do they go beyond that point , and suggest an alternative ! If you think people are planning to elect Modi because they are all fascists or driven by personality cult, you couldn't be more wrong .... its got more to do with the rampant corruption and the inability of the current govt to do anything about it .... I don't have high hopes that Modi can bring in a drastic change either, but then, voting for the same guys who are accused of rampant corruption time and again just because they "claim" to be secular, and some others blindly believe them to be so, sends a very wrong message. IMO, its kind of like giving a free pass for the future politicians to come , and that's not doing any caste/religion/sect/country any big favors either ! This, Saint while your points are good but I'll have to agree with Neo here. It's not that we are THAT enamored by Modi but the lack of any good alternative leaves us no choice. If you want us to look beyond his cult of personality, then at least tell us an alternative, who do you think is a good choice. Also time for some mujicz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 The naivety and (bordering to insanity) optimism in this page is TOO DAMN HIGH !! My dear neo, shaan, saint, etc. No matter which side of the centre comes at centre, it is the same story. It doesnt mean that the country will stagnate or regress, there are too many people and too much of interest(s) to let that happen, but no one is doodh ka dhula and if you think a new set (or even the same old set with a new leader) will drastically change anything.. well my friend, you have some problems in observing life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 The naivety and (bordering to insanity) optimism in this page is TOO DAMN HIGH !! My dear neo, shaan, saint, etc. No matter which side of the centre comes at centre, it is the same story. It doesnt mean that the country will stagnate or regress, there are too many people and too much of interest(s) to let that happen, but no one is doodh ka dhula and if you think a new set (or even the same old set with a new leader) will drastically change anything.. well my friend, you have some problems in observing life. Need not be .... the outcome of an election doesn't always indicate the alternative that you "could" have supported before you cast your vote, since mostly it'll be the result of political tie-ins and coalitions in the aftermath , especially considering the huge role of local region / caste based politics that happen in our country .... ! It might not even reflect the fact that the majority of the people wanted that person / party to be their PM in the first place ! What I'm pointing out here is , when people keep harping on and on, beating their so called "secularism" drum advising how the humanity is being led to a mass genocide yada yada, little do they go beyond that point , and suggest an alternative ! If you think people are planning to elect Modi because they are all fascists or driven by personality cult, you couldn't be more wrong .... its got more to do with the rampant corruption and the inability of the current govt to do anything about it .... I don't have high hopes that Modi can bring in a drastic change either, but then, voting for the same guys who are accused of rampant corruption time and again just because they "claim" to be secular, and some others blindly believe them to be so, sends a very wrong message. IMO, its kind of like giving a free pass for the future politicians to come , and that's not doing any caste/religion/sect/country any big favors either ! Read the highlighted part, I don't believe Modi can bring in a drastic change overnight, a big country like India with more than half a million public sector employees needs long time to be cleaned up .... the reason to vote for a change sometimes is to show that you're not a mute spectator, its done to show that you can and will change if they don't deliver .... something like what happened in k'taka in this election, the reason bjp got ousted was not because congress was any better in the state, it was clear message from people that the level of corruption / disregard shown by the previous govt won't be tolerated blindly .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sa1nT_SoLd1eR Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Need not be .... the outcome of an election doesn't always indicate the alternative that you "could" have supported before you cast your vote, since mostly it'll be the result of political tie-ins and coalitions in the aftermath , especially considering the huge role of local region / caste based politics that happen in our country .... ! It might not even reflect the fact that the majority of the people wanted that person / party to be their PM in the first place ! What I'm pointing out here is , when people keep harping on and on, beating their so called "secularism" drum advising how the humanity is being led to a mass genocide yada yada, little do they go beyond that point , and suggest an alternative ! If you think people are planning to elect Modi because they are all fascists or driven by personality cult, you couldn't be more wrong .... its got more to do with the rampant corruption and the inability of the current govt to do anything about it .... I don't have high hopes that Modi can bring in a drastic change either, but then, voting for the same guys who are accused of rampant corruption time and again just because they "claim" to be secular, and some others blindly believe them to be so, sends a very wrong message. IMO, its kind of like giving a free pass for the future politicians to come , and that's not doing any caste/religion/sect/country any big favors either ! So the mandate of 80 crore is illegitimate because it does not conform to the assumed moral standards of a certain section of population, sorry i don't buy all this vote bank rhetoric, voting factors are unique to each & every individual of this country, and he/she votes on that basis, so belittling the whole election process just cos it did not yield one's desired results is once again goin down the same dreaded road, so for a certain section caste based politics might be immoral, but for the other it might be a socio-political assertion, same goes for role of religion in politics, and that is why parties are divided into right wing, centre & left wing parties, cos democracy allows that spectrum with a caveat that they must work in that spectrum, but when right wing centers around a personality cult then that turn into a fascist surge for power as was explained in the links above, this is no way a part of democratic process & is bound to end in the opposite of democracy and that is dictatorship, and hence comes the apprehensions of fascism. Presidential type of democracies too are not beyond this caveat. People of Germany did not vote for Hitler with a pre planned strategy of mass murdering millions, they were also lead down the path of fascism on the high moral ground of nationalism & moral values, but what they ended up doing was the most anti-national, immoral act in the history of mankind, no one is born a fascist, and that is why I am against the ideology and not a person or party or organisation even though it might seem otherwise to a few over here. As far as cleaning up of electoral process is concerned then one will have to start with cleaning up the society & not the other way around, which like treating cancer is not a one pill job, it needs a long & exhaustive treatment. Whether or not my alternative gets chosen is not reflected in the final outcome is an uncertainty that every democracy has to live with, but when this is corroborated with a personality cult, who consider a certain individual as their god, savior and what not, then it has all the elements for an explosion waiting to happen. As far as alternative is concerned, it will emerge when the time for election result comes, I am not posting here to coax people into changing their voting choice, I am just posting my views, it is unfortunate that attacks usually follow that cos they do not conform to the views of others, but then nothing can be done about that and has to be taken in the stride as i usually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 ^^ ughhh, you clearly miss the entire point I was trying to make .... anyway, regarding the election mandate , whether you buy it or not, that's the truth .... in these days, the election outcome is not guaranteed to be a majority mandate .... especially at national level in this day and age of coalition politics .... most people vote for their local leader, not knowing about the bigger picture .... its never a obama v/s romney situation in india .... there's no guarantee when a person ends up as a PM - if he or she was the intended candidate people voted for. Of course, you can argue that the interests of the people are what's carried over by their respective elected members of the parliament yada yada, but we all know that's not how it works in our country .... and this repeated references to hitler/genocide/fascism combined with the paranoia of ending up as a pre-WW2 Germany seems quite dystopian / far fetched to me .... we are living in a different time, different place, a totally different ethnical / cultural society .... anyway, it seems like you've convinced yourself that a certain person/party is/are right winger(s), onto divide the society and ultimately lead the nation to ruin .... also called as the "anchoring effect" in psychology. So, can't really argue with you there ! IMO, just "claiming" to be secular shouldn't be anyone's ticket out of a bad administration mired in corruption and scandals .... its just going to set a bad precedent and no one is going to be benefited from that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sa1nT_SoLd1eR Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well if the personality cult wasn't what it is for Modi, i won't be forced to make those references in the first place. Agree with your last line, but it has to be applied vice versa as well, just because someone has 'claims' to be the development icon of the country should not be forgiven for mass genocide that was held under his watch, and whose whole political career has been an outcome of his communal appeal !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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