Shadoken Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 If having a maid was such a big necessity ( lol) . What US should have done is provide maid service to delegates at a discounted rate which they can afford. The rest of the pay should be handled by the US or Indian government. But it isn't , so tough luck . Deal with it . The mentality that rich people in India should enjoy same benefits as rich people in US is what destroys our country. Because the poor people in india , sure as hell arent treated the way poor people in US are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadoken Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 US > India Happy now?!.. Now for once just agree that the women doesn't deserve 15 years in prison That's the more important aspect of this situation Well neither of us are qualified to judge a crime and what punishment it deserves. So I am going to assume this is the same punishment for anyone else accused of the same crime. Sure it seems a bit severe and the maid obviously had intentions of her own. But the only thing saving her here is the fact that the maid also signed a document stating the previous amount is fake and that 300$ is her actual pay "on her own free will". The US has no way to check the last part , how can they prove it? The maid is going to decline signing it on her own free will. They can only go by facts and documents that the US has verified. Try to look at this issue from a US perspective as well. Edit : Saw this on GAF. So I dont know if its true or not. But if it is then just wow.. Classy moves india. Only makes us look even worse now. * The Indian government responded by revoking the maid's official passport, taking her husband and child (still back in India) into custody and asking the US State Department to detain the maid and deport her back to India. * In September an Indian court said that the maid could not make any claim under US law. It also issued an arrest warrant for the maid for "extortion, cheating and conspiracy." It seems like demanding back wages is considered extortion. But but free will? right guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Params7 Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 This thing is on GAF and the retarded Americans there are complaining about caste system and how inhuman this is and sh*t . Srsly we get it , what she did was wrong. But to talk as if the whole of india is racist and we still have slaves or something. Yes the very same country where it was legal to own slaves is complaining about some age old system. These guys seem to have no problem buying products that are made here and in China while paying workers RIDICULOUSLY low wages by ANY country's standard. Gaf is one step removed from reddit. They just like to think they are better, in reality most of that site is pretty much the same as reddit. Mostly white, mostly upperclass, mostly left wing and yet very definitely xenophobic with shades of old school racism. You think India topics are bad, check any topic that mentions China. I wouldnt worry too much about it. Edit Just for the record, I dont think there is anything the US did wrong legally (or even morally). And yet its almost certainly motivated politically as well. Find it hard to care though. There are worse transgressions on people who will never receive half of this limelight. Swap out the white with the brown and you have IVG. Its funny you accuse the site's users of racism while quoting posts calling Americans retarded. I've got to read more on this subject, maybe after work, but just because the maid signed a contract doesn't mean it is valid. If the contract is clearly violating established laws of the land then then contract never holds in the first place even with all parties in agreement. Business law 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godspeed4476 Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Devyani-Khobragade-made-false-statement-to-get-Adarsh-flat-Panel/articleshow/27694418.cms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadoken Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Swap out the white with the brown and you have IVG. Its funny you accuse the site's users of racism while quoting posts calling Americans retarded. I've got to read more on this subject, maybe after work, but just because the maid signed a contract doesn't mean it is valid. If the contract is clearly violating established laws of the land then then contract never holds in the first place even with all parties in agreement. Business law 101. Dude we are talking about the americans who are blaming caste system for this and calling Indians slave traders . This issue has nothing to do with that. They are plain ignorant and illiterate. Read the whole post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bippukt Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 All this talk of 'rule of law' and 'equality before law' is just a hogwash. What do you think would've happened if an American diplomat had been arrested by India without informing the Americans first, let alone any humiliations like strip searches and cavity searches being inflicted. Just look up the cases of Raymond Davis (just a contractor, not a diplomat) or the American Diplomat in an African country who killed somebody in a road accident. Did they even face any trial in America, let alone in their host countries where they committed the crimes? No, of course not. How can the Uncle Sam suffer that indignity. And they are making all this fuss about a non-violent case of underpayment of wages! Or are you forgetting the case where Americans illegally kidnapped a Muslim guy from Italy, and handed him over to some African despot to be tortured. It later turned out that the poor guy was not a terrorist. The warrants against the American kidnappers have been issued by Italian courts. Will the kidnappers and torturers face justice? Not a chance. I can also recount several cases where the State Dipartment of the US didn't allow any criminal proceedings against foreign officials even though they were of much more serious nature (Hint - they were Russian, Chinese and Saudis). So stop with all the high-minded rhetoric and know just one thing - in international relations, only two things really matter. The first is your power and the second is your national interests. A distant third is morality or values, which are more often than not used to further the cause of the first two. It is cynical, but unfortunately it is true and it is how the world operates even in today's "civilized" world. The way she was treated has given Devyani the opportunity to completely shift the focus away from the alleged crime. If Americans think that they can enjoy all the diplomatic niceties while ignoring them where others are concerned, then they are wrong. This case has the unfortunate potential to seriously affect India-US relations and all because of a possibly lying diplomat, opportunistic maid and the incompetent Indian MEA (why didn't they recall the diplomat when the case came to light) and the US State Department. Oh, and I forgot, this Preet Bharara who probably sees this as a good opportunity to further his political ambitions. EDIT: You can read this article from The Hindu. You can read only the first and the last portion of the article if you don't have time. http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/international-law-only-for-weaker-states/article5479314.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadoken Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 So stop with all the high-minded rhetoric and know just one thing - in international relations, only two things really matter. The first is your power and the second is your national interests. A distant third is morality or values, which are more often than not used to further the cause of the first two. It is cynical, but unfortunately it is true and it is how the world operates even in today's "civilized" world. What needs to be done might be based on the matter of the nations' interest. The sensible thing would be to just deport them and avoid further conflict. But to say what these people do is morally OK , is just wrong. Just because other countries do it , we shouldn't condemn this behavior? That is what I find completely ridiculous. People here saying stuff like this and sympathizing with the diplomat. "But how can she afford a maid?" "It is a crime by US standards but not by Indian standards" "300$ is still a lot of money and she got other benefits , she is just fine" ...etc Is having a servant a fuking human right or what? You go to another country , you play by their rules. Yes you stated cases of USA bailing out diplomats with diplomatic immunity because they killed someone , but would it be acceptable if people started saying what he did is not a crime? These morons keep breaking laws and bending rules to their wishes , but in one instance they get caught and BANG , people are going nuts,rioting and demanding release. What kind of worship mentality is this? And people are saying it is a matter of nation's pride ? I wonder who lacks pride now. You don't need to justify her behavior folks , I am sure she can use her own influence and cheat her way out. They don't need your kind support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Params7 Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 But it does hold both parties responsible for signing one contact & following another for full six months right?! Obviously the second contract is not valid for US department But it does prove that both were fabricating the first one to just get the visa & then follow the other one How is the maid a victim then,when she agreed to the job knowing that it was the second contract which would be aid to her & kept working for six months without questioning the wages The thing is...it is being turned into an American Vs Indian national pride Otherwise there is no racism involved It doesn't matter both agreed to fabricate documents. What matters is that fabrication violates exploitation laws in the US. What matters is the employer is seen as the natural aggressor and the exploiter who decided to play the system so she can pay her bai under minimum wage. You don't get to pull stints like this in the US and get away with it without the human rights commission busting you down. http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/December13/KhobragadeArrestPR.php Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said: “Foreign nationals brought to the United States to serve as domestic workers are entitled to the same protections against exploitation as those afforded to United States citizens. The false statements and fraud alleged to have occurred here were designed to circumvent those protections so that a visa would issue for a domestic worker who was promised far less than a fair wage. This type of fraud on the United States and exploitation of an individual will not be tolerated.” The fact that India is showing no sympathy for the maid and instead promoted Devyani, who now even has a history of fraud in India, to UN level just to get full immunity is tragic in every sense of the word. This is not going to go down well in the world stage at all. And it won't even help Devyani here. India should have acted before, but lethargy is the name of the game when it comes to governance in India. Now that things have blown up, at least India should have fought the US behind the context of trying Devyani for her crimes of fraud themselves, instead of dancing on her fingertips. The US ignores Vienna Conventions, but the world looks at India on the other side to see it defend a corrupted official on charges of exploitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playstation Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 But it does hold both parties responsible for signing one contact & following another for full six months right?! Obviously the second contract is not valid for US department But it does prove that both were fabricating the first one to just get the visa & then follow the other one How is the maid a victim then,when she agreed to the job knowing that it was the second contract which would be aid to her & kept working for six months without questioning the wages The thing is...it is being turned into an American Vs Indian national pride Otherwise there is no racism involved We Indians do not have national pride...otherwise there are ways to teach america a lesson too. Lets face it ...its not like American Diplomats have not broken rules here...they must have somewhere or the other...but problem with our government it is too soft....I say if we do really can have a strong case against american diplomats ..lets charge them...then see How the f**k these americans react.....then lets see their sense of justice...which always goes for a toss when on foreign land....shoot innocent people in road....That Bhopal Gas tragedy american guy -Anderson who was released on Bail and went back to America never to come back....insulting India judicial ... Uss time yeh American log ka sense of justice gand ke andar gusha hua tha....bada respect karta hai doosra ka law of land....sala murder kar ke chale jata hai .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadoken Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 We Indians do not have national pride...otherwise there are ways to teach america a lesson too. Lets face it ...its not like American Diplomats have not broken rules here...they must have somewhere or the other...but problem with our government it is too soft....I say if we do really can have a strong case against american diplomats ..lets charge them...then see How the f**k these americans react.....then lets see their sense of justice...which always goes for a toss when on foreign land....shoot innocent people in road....That Bhopal Gas tragedy american guy -Anderson who was released on Bail and went back to America never to come back....insulting India judicial ... Uss time yeh American log ka sense of justice gand ke andar gusha hua tha....bada respect karta hai doosra ka law of land....sala murder kar ke chale jata hai .... What is this some kind of school kids fight? He hit me so i hit him back? If Indian government is acting like pussies and not punishing US diplomats for crimes , how is that US governments fault. But guess what? our system is so fuked up and corrupt the US diplomats would just have to pay a small sum and everything will be covered. Nothing happened here folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 I would start with setting strip searches of the travellers and it will be totally random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sa1nT_SoLd1eR Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 According to Vienna conventions a consular official or staff do not fall in the jurisdiction of labor laws of receiving states, and in this case it wasn't even foreign labor that was engaged for work. US had no right to interfere let alone arresting a foreign diplomat (strip searching to cavity search to putting her in with hardened criminals, the fact that this happened nevertheless is just adding insult to injury. Furthermore in cases like this there are a number of time tested precedents none of which were brought into action, and further Vienna convention has provisions in such cases, e.g Person non grata & many more such instruments, which were overlooked willingly by the US state department. Article 47 Exemption from Work Permits Members of the consular post shall, with respect to services rendered for the sending State, be exempt from any obligations in regard to work permits imposed by the laws and regulations of the receiving State concerning the employment of foreign labor. Members of the private staff of consular officers and of consular employees shall, if they do not carry on any other gainful occupation in the receiving State, be exempt from the obligations referred to in paragraph 1 of this Article. Something like this could not have been done without clearances from High-Up the hierarchy chain, this is not your run of the mill criminal one is going after, this is a foreign official which is fully protected under international law irrespective of whether she is working at a consulate or an embassy. Point 2 of Article 47 also answers as to why Sangeeta Richards wanted permission to work part time but was denied, She wanted to make provision 1 null & void, but since Devyani denied she ran away in June & concocted the underpay theory & the whole PR machinery of US has been pushed into high gear to show Sangeeta as a victim & Devyani as a criminal with words like 'Slavery' to 'Human trafficking' which have a deep impact on the psyche of US citizens & no-one is looking at what the international law or time-tested precedents say in disputes such as this. The more one looks at the facts of the case, it looks like a preemptive strike by US & Sangeeta Richards & Preet Bharara are just pawns used by the state to teach India a lesson (both BTW are well connected with the US state machinery in one way or the other, a fact that cannot be overlooked), it is an attack on India's sovereignty, India has no other options now but to retaliate & to secure their diplomat, foregoing which this is bound to escalate, there is no 2 ways about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Bharara ka hukka-pani band karana padega American-indian community mein. BC bahut hi bada walla dalla hai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/12/19/indian-american-district-attorney-is-being-called-uncle-tom-in-india-for-prosecuting-khobragade/ They are calling Bharara Uncle Tom. So f**king apt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man In The Box Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 We Indians do not have national pride...otherwise there are ways to teach america a lesson too. Lets face it ...its not like American Diplomats have not broken rules here...they must have somewhere or the other...but problem with our government it is too soft....I say if we do really can have a strong case against american diplomats ..lets charge them...then see How the f**k these americans react.....then lets see their sense of justice...which always goes for a toss when on foreign land....shoot innocent people in road....That Bhopal Gas tragedy american guy -Anderson who was released on Bail and went back to America never to come back....insulting India judicial ... Uss time yeh American log ka sense of justice gand ke andar gusha hua tha....bada respect karta hai doosra ka law of land....sala murder kar ke chale jata hai .... What is this some kind of school kids fight? He hit me so i hit him back? If Indian government is acting like pussies and not punishing US diplomats for crimes , how is that US governments fault. But guess what? our system is so fuked up and corrupt the US diplomats would just have to pay a small sum and everything will be covered. Nothing happened here folks. Well said Shadoken. And don't bother about PlayStation. The guy is just . He thinks we should start bullying countries like America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadoken Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Lol India is already considering charges of Mis-treatment of a women on the full channel from arrest to the lock up As she is an Indian national & stripping a woman & touching her privates Is illegal in India And guess who is the one accusing police of a cavity search. None other than miss liar liar pants on fire herself. Cant believe people are still defending her at this point . Never knew India cared so much about Women's right. Oh sorry i forgot , they only care if you are a rich and influential woman. Not some peasant. The Fact is The American Diplomats are the worst employers & mistreaters around the world in several nations according to an official surveyed report Oh the irony So then please tell me , why dooesnt the indian government do something about it ? If they are mistreating humans in india. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man In The Box Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadoken Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Also the riots with Obama pictures is quite hilarious lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man In The Box Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 We should apologise to America and request them to leave Devyani alone. There is no point spoiling ties with them due to a diplomat whom we didn't even know about before the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadoken Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Anyway ,Am not saying she wasn't mistreated. I believe she claimed that they did a cavity search on her but it was actually a strip search. US should just deport her a*s and close this case. But people should stop fuking denying what Devyani did wasnt wrong , it makes us look like complete douchebags. The mentality and conspiracy theories is disturbing , the maid planned this all along? srsly Sympathizing with a person who clearly abuses her status and power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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