Ne0 Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 So, corruption was not present in China? Was not present in Singapore? Was not present in any nation? Is completely eradicated? There is difference between our and their governance, over there, a single party system took hold and that allowed them to achieve whatever they wanted at an accelerated pace of development. That does not mean, it is the way to pursue economic growth in this country. Our founding fathers had a different vision for our socio-economic system to grow into, it was and is not flawless but it has led us up, it is in need of a revamp and maybe Mr. Modi is the man who will provide it. I am not denying that but coming up with straw men argument is not going to serve your purpose. You know, take my freedom and give me development. No. Dude, are u even reading what others are typing before getting all hyper with your keyboard ? Where did I say that we should've adopted chinese policies ? Where did I say that the personal freedom has to be contained ? I was only comparing the economic development .... to be more specific with an ex, since you have already visited china, just compare the metro / train system between hangzhou / Shanghai and between that of any two cities in India. Just compare the roads in Hangzhou with that of the best city in India, that kind of development does not need AFSPA, curtailing of human rights a and whatnot .... it just needs a bunch of people to have a good vision of the future for their country, sound policymaking etc. Whether UPA / Congress policies were solely responsible or not, people are gonna blame them since they were at the helm for the maximum amount of time ! That's all I was trying to explain before. Anyway, this was my last post at trying to reason with you .... if you still dont get it , well stay in your bubble ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALPHA17 Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 it just needs a bunch of people to have a good vision of the future for their country, sound policymaking etc. Whether UPA / Congress policies were solely responsible or not, people are gonna blame them since they were at the helm for the maximum amount of time ! That's all I was trying to explain before. It needs no opposition, single-party system, that is the same thing I have been parroting. Once the party thinks such-and-such is the need and this is the route to it. DONE. No parliament, no explanation, no nothing. The thing is, instead of India where everything gets mired in the nitty-gritty of resettlement, compensation and this and that (aided by a somewhat open information network) and obviously bureaucratic mire, in China if the politburo comes up with a plan. That plan will be implemented irrespective of everything because if it is not, then heads will roll. Literally and figuratively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0 Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 It needs no opposition, single-party system, that is the same thing I have been parroting. Once the party thinks such-and-such is the need and this is the route to it. DONE. No parliament, no explanation, no nothing. The thing is, instead of India where everything gets mired in the nitty-gritty of resettlement, compensation and this and that (aided by a somewhat open information network) and obviously bureaucratic mire, in China if the politburo comes up with a plan. That plan will be implemented irrespective of everything because if it is not, then heads will roll. Literally and figuratively. Single party system might have its advantages, but that cannot be the only reason ! For many years , congress was the de-facto party in India (atleast until India gandhi was ousted out of power after the emergency debacle), but was the country was in worse stage at that time ! Rajiv Gandhi had the absolute majority of 434 seats , still the country could not grow in any leaps and bounds. Also, there are many countries with democracy which are sufficiently advanced - US/France etc. which are also developed. IMO, it's not the democratic processes that's at fault, it's the lack of sings policy making, poor law and order etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALPHA17 Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Single party system might have its advantages, but that cannot be the only reason ! For many years , congress was the de-facto party in India (atleast until India gandhi was ousted out of power after the emergency debacle), but was the country was in worse stage at that time ! Rajiv Gandhi had the absolute majority of 434 seats , still the country could not grow in any leaps and bounds. Also, there are many countries with democracy which are sufficiently advanced - US/France etc. which are also developed. IMO, it's not the democratic processes that's at fault, it's the lack of sings policy making, poor law and order etc And for all this you can blame the Congress, fair and square because they were the ones who devastated the opposition, especially under Indra Gandhi's time. This does not absolve the opposition (which means all parties) from its failings, which are mainly more regionally focussed. Especially when the central coalition is weak (or surrounds itself with many partners) the situation is worse because everyone is out for their pound of flesh. And finally in the last term the opposition mainly used to end up dissolving a session instead of letting important bills and discussions to push through. Which was also the time when Mr. Modi engaged in a lot of rhetoric. So, if he gets criticised, his followers and supporters should learn to digest that instead of what generally happens on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 It needs no opposition, single-party system, that is the same thing I have been parroting. Once the party thinks such-and-such is the need and this is the route to it. DONE. No parliament, no explanation, no nothing. The thing is, instead of India where everything gets mired in the nitty-gritty of resettlement, compensation and this and that (aided by a somewhat open information network) and obviously bureaucratic mire, in China if the politburo comes up with a plan. That plan will be implemented irrespective of everything because if it is not, then heads will roll. Literally and figuratively. Then may I ask why congress never brought the widespread reforms in polity , in democratic setup, bureaucracy, elections, social? And whatever they did had little result cuz socialism they practiced runs on shelling out doles and it dies when you run out of someone's money. This thinking which has been practiced even during UPA in form of MNREGA. If a family earns (actually handed over for being there) 5k per year, govt can sleep happily. A small story I read about a Britisher and a congress guy, happened in 60s This Congress guy employed 100 men for a construction work, basically digging out soil and to flatten the field. British man asked, you can use tractors to make it quick. Congressi replies this is under a scheme to give employment. To which britisher said, oh you can give them spoons instead of shovels since your cause is so noble. I mean this mentality has brought india down, and there is no one to blame but Congress. This guy Manishankar, keeps harping Panchayati Raj, a mean of further decentralization of governance.... which is practically giving power to novices or those who can at best finance a tractor or install a tubewell but will bore no responsibility at all. And this adds up tons of overheads...elections, salaries...pensions. To justify this he gives example of Nehru and Gandhi. We cant go forward if this skewed socialism keeps bogging us down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner4life Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Udham did you know Nehru even said that after loss of land that .." the lost land is barren" ...Yeha tha Hum Log ka First PM.....mc sala......Arey Nathuram Godse had he shot him Instead of Gandhi ..things would have been so much better for this country. . That is stupidity at such a level that it's difficult even to comprehend what kind of a world view you have. Simply astonishing & nothing else. Though not surprising. Such kind of ideology is ingrained in RSS/BJP hardline supporters. That's why it has been banned multiple times over the years as a terrorist organisation & not wrongly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 That is stupidity at such a level that it's difficult even to comprehend what kind of a world view you have. Simply astonishing & nothing else. Though not surprising. Such kind of ideology is ingrained in RSS/BJP hardline supporters. That's why it has been banned multiple times over the years as a terrorist organisation & not wrongly so. RSS has been banned thrice.Once when they were under scanner for Gandhi murder and second time during emergency. They had no hand whatsoever in Gandhi's killing and the ban was lifted, further they were invited to march in 63's republic day parade for their work during 62 war. No explanation needed for ban during emergency. Third ban was after Babri structure demolition which was lifted by the Tribunal itself. Please be better informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALPHA17 Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Then may I ask why congress never brought the widespread reforms in polity , in democratic setup, bureaucracy, elections, social? Because they were not preceded by a person like Mao. Simple. If we might have had a dictator instead of a democratic set-up things might be different but it was not so. And then again we can spiral out into 'What if' theories which have no basis now. And whatever they did had little result cuz socialism they practiced runs on shelling out doles and it dies when you run out of someone's money. This thinking which has been practiced even during UPA in form of MNREGA. If a family earns (actually handed over for being there) 5k per year, govt can sleep happily. And that is where your understanding of socialism is flawed. Almost all states in Scandinavia are Socialist states. A socialist set-up does not mean a failed, dysfunctional system, it is how it is implemented and I agree that the Congress although starting with the famous five year plans could not implement it effectively throughout and that is what we have to blame now. Also, MNREGA as a scheme was let down by the scale of its implementation. The Congress should have tried to do major activities like road extensions, railways expansions, dams and factory building, which would have benefited the nation more. But all this has been stopped, the nation voted for Mr. Modi and the BJP (with an overwhelming mandate), so let us see how he performs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner4life Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 RSS has been banned thrice. Once when they were under scanner for Gandhi murder and second time during emergency. They had no hand whatsoever in Gandhi's killing and the ban was lifted, further they were invited to march in 63's republic day parade for their work during 62 war. No explanation needed for ban during emergency. Third ban was after Babri structure demolition which was lifted by the Tribunal itself. Please be better informed. From my post above which quoted @playstation's comment, the only thing you find offensive is that I called RSS a terrorist organisation? Btw people like you & playstation do understand na, what exactly does a terrorist or terrorist activity mean? Hint - It has got nothing to do with any particular religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 From my post above which quoted @playstation's comment, the only thing you find offensive is that I called RSS a terrorist organisation? Btw people like you & playstation do understand na, what exactly does a terrorist or terrorist activity mean? Hint - It has got nothing to do with any particular religion. If you are cleared what is a terrorist organization then... give example of al Qa'ida, simi, im, CPI ML, ranveer sena...not RSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paapi Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Correct, RSS in not a terrorist organization, it is a Hate organization, just one step behind the arm terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 @Alpha If you have any suggestions, don't be shy to make it, this govt can do. This is how it unfolded about Rezang La: I'm sending my list to Modi, there is nothing can be achieved without our participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALPHA17 Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 ^ Yeah! Well glad that Razang La is getting its due but the same story was the case in every defensive stand in the '62 war. Every unit in prepared positions dug in and fought till the last breath and last round. Few were captured and the captured had their own tales to share. I would prefer if the government chose to highlight cases like Haji Pir and Longewalla, where not only was the position dire but the men carried the day through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner4life Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 https://twitter.com/EconomistDelhi/status/534668996935557120 Media would've made a big story out of all this if it had happened in UPA era.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Yeah, absolutely. Media was busy cozying up to Radia to appoint their men in ministry or making track-II visits to pakistan or celebrating new-age millionaires like: Ooopps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 British rabbi and three Americans slaughtered in Jerusalem synagogue attack: Worshippers killed at dawn by fanatics screaming 'God is great' armed with knives, axes and guns http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2838891/Four-worshippers-killed-terrorist-attack-Jerusalem-synagogue-two-men-armed-knives-axes-guns.html ----- Tomorrow Israel will kill 40, Hamas will never learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnackChap Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 And day after tomorrow the usual guys will start blaming israel for starting the skirmish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playstation Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Yes and I have had the chance to stay in Singapore and Oz too. Cheers! It is not really about just AFSPA, just the fact that most conventional media outlets like Google are not present in the nation should be reason enough to be scared. And please China is no saint when it comes to Human Rights violations. It is a single party system and if it wants something to be done (as a message to the world or for economic development) it will be carried out with ruthless efficiency, does not matter if it marginalises a sub-class in its path. Economic development is not the be all and end all of a country's image. How they achieve it and their methodology has to be scrutinised too. Tomorrow if they build dams on the Brahmaputra and its glacial tributaries and it screws India and Bangladesh, will you live easy with that? Maybe you will be happy if Delhi ends up under a perennial blanket of smog like Beijing and Shanghai. Hey, economic development FTW! You think India is not polluted?? This argument is hardly makes any point . You are free to leave the country, you know. Instead of coming up with straw men argument like this. So just because i pointed out the fake and blinded system here ..I should leave the country. Why dont you leave the country ?? Russia bohat bada hai. That is stupidity at such a level that it's difficult even to comprehend what kind of a world view you have. Simply astonishing & nothing else. Though not surprising. Such kind of ideology is ingrained in RSS/BJP hardline supporters. That's why it has been banned multiple times over the years as a terrorist organisation & not wrongly so. Says the man who thinks people who kill and behead innocents in the name of religion...who want to put strict religious law whereever they go ...are Just a victim of bad PR. And Supporting one man is supporting Rss and BJP as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner4life Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Says the man who thinks people who kill and behead innocents in the name of religion...who want to put strict religious law whereever they go ...are Just a victim of bad PR. Despite me clarifying that particular point multiple times during that conversation, you still keep on twisting my viewpoint.. Maybe because w/o twisting you won't be able to use it to mock the argument.. And what you said re killing Nehru/Gandhi is something which RSS said quite recently itself.. Hence the comparison.. Most hardline RSS supporters agree to that view.. Whether you are one of them or not but atleast your views match their's perfectly on this topic.. Btw a terrorist by definition is someone who is willing to murder non-combatants for a difference in ideology.. Something which fits perfectly with your statement.. So maybe you should start introspecting your worldview a bit more deeply.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Cisco to invest $1.7 billion in India this year; to partner Centre’s digital drive<br /> <br /> <br /> <a class='bbc_url' href='http://m.economictimes.com/articleshow/45171361.cms?intenttarget=no&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst'>http://m.economictimes.com/articleshow/45171361.cms?intenttarget=no&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst</a><br /> <br /> ------<br /> This is the kind of confidence Modi can inject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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