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ALPHA17

The Graphics Card thread

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^ Rumored at $500/$550. They're going in for the kill this time. Maxwell at retail would probably drag upto next summer , too late imo.

 

Maxwell will need to do a lot of reworking in that field.

 

If they are still pursuing the project on the basis of the 20nm node, then they are going to have a bad time. TSMC is having major issues producing those in bulk. Which will leave us with severely limited supplies of Maxwell chips (with astronomical pricing) or Maxwell is going to switch to 28nm just like AMD did.

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Maxwell will need to do a lot of reworking in that field.

 

If they are still pursuing the project on the basis of the 20nm node, then they are going to have a bad time. TSMC is having major issues producing those in bulk. Which will leave us with severely limited supplies of Maxwell chips (with astronomical pricing) or Maxwell is going to switch to 28nm just like AMD did.

 

I don't see either maxwell or the pirate islands sporting 20nm , and people were expecting that in volcanic. SMH -___-

 

 

QNdAj6t.png

 

 

Oh f**k yes first for Linux and another one for a possible SteamOS collab.

 

 

 

When will the livestream start in Indian time?

 

 

September 26th , 12:30 AM

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I don't see either maxwell or the pirate islands sporting 20nm , and people were expecting that in volcanic. SMH -___-

 

 

 

i dont think nvidia would drag 28 nm any longer bar if there are some astronomical difficulties in the manufacturing process,dont see that happening,if it does meh <_<

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I don't see either maxwell or the pirate islands sporting 20nm , and people were expecting that in volcanic. SMH -___-

i dont think nvidia would drag 28 nm any longer bar if there are some astronomical difficulties in the manufacturing process,dont see that happening,if it does meh <_<

 

Do you think transitioning manufacturing nodes is easy?

 

Tape outs occur one year in advance and we have not even heard anything from nVidia on Maxwell. So yeah! Unless a miracle occurs or suddenly the yields improve at TSMC things will remain meh.

Edited by ALPHA17

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Do you think transitioning manufacturing nodes is easy?

 

Tape outs occur one year in advance and we have not even heard anything from nVidia on Maxwell. So yeah! Unless a miracle occurs or suddenly the yields improve at TSMC things will remain meh.

do you really believe transitioning of manufacturing nodes is the problem here?? i don't ,the real problem would be turning a 20 nm process profitable and making sure cost per transistor to drop below the previous generation sufficiently enough and in time enough to prevent losses,this is why both AMD and Nvidia are really backing away from 20 nm generation and taking as much time as they can,they both know 20 nm wont be profitable,which is sad but profit is the biggest driving factor,shifting a manufacturing process only is relative to profit,if it is't profittable both AMD and NVIdia will obviously wait it out.

here is an interesting link regarding the same.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/123529-nvidia-deeply-unhappy-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless

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do you really believe transitioning of manufacturing nodes is the problem here?? i don't ,the real problem would be turning a 20 nm process profitable and making sure cost per transistor to drop below the previous generation sufficiently enough and in time enough to prevent losses,this is why both AMD and Nvidia are really backing away from 20 nm generation and taking as much time as they can,they both know 20 nm wont be profitable,which is sad but profit is the biggest driving factor,shifting a manufacturing process only is relative to profit,if it is't profittable both AMD and NVIdia will obviously wait it out.

here is an interesting link regarding the same.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/123529-nvidia-deeply-unhappy-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless

 

Yes, it is a problem here because neither AMD nor nVidia have their own foundries, TSMC is their shop.

 

Also, if 22nm is so worthless, pray tell me why Intel is already there and in-fact marketing products based on that node. They own their foundries, add two plus two.

 

Profit is the driving motive in business, always, nothing new you found out there. TSMC has historically lagged in this department but it is the world's largest dedicated semi-conductor foundry which can push out volumes which are needed by nVidia and AMD for their products.

 

So yes, if TSMC has an issue it triggers a domino-effect chain reaction that causes everything else dependent on it to be pushed back.

 

Also, nVidia has had numerous yield problems, most well documented recent ones were the Fermi (GTX4**) reveal. This is the most sensational piece you can find but yes, this happened.

 

Please don't detract the discussion. Just because nVidia is hurt that TSMC cannot transition to a new node does not mean that the industry has turned meh.

 

While we are at, the top results for Maxwell turn up, these links,

 

NVIDIA will launch next series sooner than expected. I was told by one of the manufacturers that NVIDIA will release Maxwell series in early 2014. It is expected that GeForce 800 series will arrive in the first quarter of 2014, somewhere between February and March. What it basically means is that the chances for 20nm process are low. Of course NVIDIA could already have first 20nm samples sooner than that, but TSMC will not be ready for mass production till June 2014. Thus, unless my source is wrong the first Maxwell GPUs will not be made in 20nm fabrication process, but if they are expect huge graphics cards shortage and more paper-launches.

Edited by ALPHA17

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i can definitely add 2+2 ,it 4 and from my limited understanding i think its correct. j/k

but thing is what or what not Intel can turn profitable doesn't concern AMD or Nvidia ,cause they get thier chips from TSMC,so if TSMC cant provide the required at a margin,Nvidia and

AMD would suffer ,and i don't think Nvidia would ever turn to intel for chip manufacturing(let alone AMD),never happening,and i dont think i mentioned anywhere the the whole industry has turned meh and would never move on from here,i didn't..

i was making a simple point that TSMC is unable to turn 20 nm process profitable for now and that concerns both the major graphics chip manufacturers,what or what not intel does ,does not if all concern the gpu industry in any significant manner,so bringing intel into this is more of detracting than anything else.


and about the fermi reveal,yeah that happened in 2009,its an old news,which was for obvious reasons sensational back then,but it doesn't concern what's happening today in 2013 or 2014,though it does obviously prove TSMC's production inefficiencies.

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but thing is what or what not Intel can turn profitable doesn't concern AMD or Nvidia ,cause they get thier chips from TSMC,so if TSMC cant provide the required at a margin,Nvidia and

 

Actually, while you were posted this I went through the article you had linked, again. And surprise AMD's partner for its needs is not TSMC, it is Global Foundries. Which was spun-off when AMD acquired ATi back in 2006. And they spent quite some time collaborating with AMD to iron out its Bulldozer and Piledriver release.

 

There is a grain of truth in all this though, AMD Graphics division is not complaining and neither is Intel. Why? In the latter's case because they are IDM (Integrated Device Manufacturer), for AMD it is more on how they invested time and effort to smooth out their node jumping issues way back in 2007-09.

 

Go through the release notes on the R-290X and find out what is so amazing about it apart from the fact it performs better than the TITAN.

The Hawaii R9-290X GPU will feature a die size larger than Tahiti yet 30% smaller than NVIDIA’s GK110 core. It will be based on a 28nm process and would be available to consumers in mid-October 2013.

AMD would suffer ,and i don't think Nvidia would ever turn to intel for chip manufacturing(let alone AMD),never happening,and i dont think i mentioned anywhere the the whole industry has turned meh and would never move on from here,i didn't..

 

Well, AMD is not suffering as much because of the slack Global Foundries offers it.

 

nVidia has to make sense of its business, since the release of the GTX8*** series in ~2007 -->08 all its chip designs have been larger than the prior generation, this negates the profit of moving onto a new fabrication node in my opinion. While in AMD it has gone in reverse, all their chips have been shrinking since the release of the HD3*** series.

 

Also, the fact that they invested so heavily on getting their yield efficiency on track has improved the number of cards it can market and because smaller chips, more cards from the same wafer.

 

Don't believe me, Anandtech has done two very good articles on how AMD went from graphical under-dog to the dominant player it is today,

If ATi / AMD could sense this coming and changed their game accordingly then what was stopping nVidia.

and about the fermi reveal,yeah that happened in 2009,its an old news,which was for obvious reasons sensational back then,but it doesn't concern what's happening today in 2013 or 2014,though it does obviously prove TSMC's production inefficiencies.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
It may be old news but the reason why nVidia is boxed in a corner today are because of the decisions taken then.
They could have gone for smaller chip design, no, could have invested in fabrication yield improvement, they did not. Prior to the time nVidia was the king-of-the-hill that dictated the terms in the graphic department but unwillingness to change then we see that, now, AMD sets up the release schedule and reveal and so on.
nVidia will release a GTX790 / Maxwell, whatever but unless it does not reorient its design and focus on making do with what they have rather than ranting that its partners are to fault, tough luck finding support.
Edited by ALPHA17

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well honestly even i had no idea AMD gets its work done by global foundries,even though i gave you that link :lol: , i thought they had shut down all the foundry business back in the day,Thank you for pointing that out.

 

This really makes a lot more sense now,and also explains the die size difference between the nvidia's current gpu lineup and the amd's upcoming offerings,which honestly i had a hard time understanding ,cause i thought TSMC was the manufacturer for both.

This really isn't looking good for NVIda,they have to rethink probably everything,from design to approach.

AMD looks like heading into a good time,all the work put into global foundries will pay off it seems.

 

googling for global foundries ,i did find a unexpected thing though,AMD is slowly giving up its share in GF,its hard to make out what all that is about ... :scratchchin:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/121069-the-dream-is-dead-amd-gives-up-its-share-in-globalfoundries

Edited by Razpor

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well honestly even i had no idea AMD gets its work done by global foundries,even though i gave you that link :lol: , i thought they had shut down all the foundry business back in the day,Thank you for pointing that out.

 

They sold of Global Foundries to acquire the funds to purchase ATi. For a time it was looking to take up nVidia but the talks never reached a common ground mostly because (hearsay) the CEO of nVidia Jen Hsan-Huang wanted to be head of the conglomerate which did not go down well with the board.

This really makes a lot more sense now,and also explains the die size difference between the nvidia's current gpu lineup and the amd's upcoming offerings,which honestly i had a hard time understanding ,cause i thought TSMC was the manufacturer for both.
Companies provide the design and individual wafers are taped out to every company (as per order).
Global Foundries also fabricates Qualcomm SoC's and TSMC does the same for Apple products up-to iPhone 5 according to my knowledge.

googling for global foundries ,i did find a unexpected thing though,AMD is slowly giving up its share in GF,its hard to make out what all that is about ... :scratchchin:

 

It was very well publicised deal back in the day --> AMD sells of stake in Global Foundries.

 

I cannot read what it means right now though. It does give AMD the choice to call the shots on whom to deal with in the future (TSMC or GF).

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