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Micro Transactions Discussion Mega Thread

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11 hours ago, VelivolusDas said:

 

 

Yeah if the industry was represented by same 3 or 4 greedy fkers, publishers who started online pass, season pass, MTs in full price games, attempted no resale DRM and now lootboxes, then yeah industry would be in trouble. Fortunately this year alone is filled to the brim with quality games that have absolutely nothing to do with MTs or loot crates, and sold way more than their publisher's expectations. So yeah, they can take their SOS and shove right up their a*s. I wouldn't shed two tears if these 4 publishers go out of business tomorrow.

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Yeah if the industry was represented by same 3 or 4 greedy fkers, publishers who started online pass, season pass, MTs in full price games, attempted no resale DRM and now lootboxes, then yeah industry would be in trouble. Fortunately this year alone is filled to the brim with quality games that have absolutely nothing to do with MTs or loot crates, and sold way more than their publisher's expectations. So yeah, they can take their SOS and shove right up their a*s. I wouldn't shed two tears if these 4 publishers go out of business tomorrow.
Which 4?
I could only see EA and Activision doing this sh*t.

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The industry is already represented by 3-4 publishers though. EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Blizzard. SONY and Microsoft for their platforms. Everyone else comes second and have no upper hand against these.

 

The cost of production has gone way high to continue to sell AAA video games at $60. That's the sole reason season passes and MTs have come in.

 

Pretty much every major game these days have a season pass/DLCs. It's never going to change. The people who vote their wallet are in minority. 

 

 

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Like Jim said, it's not my fault that some games have their budgets blowing out of controls because of their corporate policies and what not. When Yoko Toro says he's extremely happy with 1M sold copies, while TR guys need 4M to even out, you know something is fked up in their management. Why does Gran Turismo S, which took 4 years to develop and has no VIP/Car/Season pass, no MTs, no loot crates and promise of all free dlc for near future while the annual Forza hash out has all of the above? It's nothing but fking greed.

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You can't compared budget of a TR  game with Nier Automata. Production cost of games like TR, AC nd all are way higher than games like Nier.

 

1 million is enough for niche games like Nier and Nioh but not for  mainstream AAA games like TR, UC, Gears, AC nd all.

Edited by WhiteWolf

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Exactly my point. Not my fault their budgets go out of control, especially when Nier A is 10 times the game the TR reboot is.

 

Also massive respect to Bethesda, really turned my opinion around this gen with their constant release of top class AAA single player games without this lootbox/MT f**kery.

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18 minutes ago, WhiteWolf said:

You can't compared budget of a TR  game with Nier Automata. Production cost of games like TR, AC nd all are way higher than games like Nier.

 

1 million is enough for niche games like Nier and Nioh but not for  mainstream AAA games like TR, UC, Gears, AC nd all.

 

And yet Sony has not launched loot crates on UC, GOW etc. CDPR had a massive game in Witcher (which still seems even more AAA and value for money than Shadow of War in 2017), but they had no MTs. Season passes with good DLCs are fine (which Sony does), but not making people grind in SP due to loot boxes.

 

WB, EA and Activision are the ones doint this. Even Ubi MT loot boxes are not as bad. If you want MT, keep it, but don't lock the game ending behind it (or a choice of heavy grind). Right now, it feels like Arkham Knight was WB's experiment on how to make the ending tedious to get. And this is their experiment on how to monetize the situation, so people pay to get out of tedium. 

 

Hopefully, this does not become an industry standard. 

 

NoteWith Witcher 3, I am taking into consideration graphics, music, size of the World etc.  to call it AAA (according to what I assume is your definition of AAA). Since you are saying Nier Automata isn't AAA despite it's quality. And CDPR did make a huge profit with Witcher 3. Along with a ton of good will.

 

So I find it difficult to accept all this "Gaming production costs" are too expensive argument, said by random people on the net without a shred of proof. Even if it is true, it is the job of the finance dept. of the companies to make proper plans to keep budget in check. It's not our fault if they failed to do this. But mainly, I think they did not fail. The games are in profit. Only the firms are looking to nickel and dime us more. And they are looking to start a new industry trend with this ala "Paying for Online", which people like sheep accepted all over the World.

Edited by roun90

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GTA 5 took around 250 million dollars to make a considerable part of which is marketing expenses. Considering games sold at 60 USD, it would take around 4 million copies sold to break even. 

Now this is GTA 5 we are talking which is probably the most expensive game made.

Take any other open world game and we can safely assume that it wouldn't be more than 100 million USD considering that Uncharted 3 took 25 million dollars to make. This would put the break even at around 1.7 million which is not a big deal for big publishers. There are close to 90 million consoles and Several million PCs. If even 5 percent of them buy the game, it would mean at least 5 million copies sold which is a very good profit.

In conclusion, 'games being too expensive to make a profit' is bullshit. 

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Roun

 

No loot crates in UC huh? Looks like you haven't played UC games properly :P

 

 

You have to count budget and scale of the game before giving it a AAA tag. Ori is fantastic game but will you call it AAA? Same goes for Cuphead. I love Nier but it's not AAA.  Witcher 3 is definitely AAA coz scale and budget of that game is bigger than most AAA RPG games you see from studios like Bethesda and Bioware. 

 

 

And No point in comparing with CD Red. They're one of a kind special devs. Absolutely no publisher will follow their model. So no point in comparing. Games like Witcher 3 and Devs like CD Red are rare in this industry. 

 

 

Edited by WhiteWolf

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3 minutes ago, WhiteWolf said:

Roun

 

No loot crates in UC huh? Looks like you haven't played UC games properly :P

 

 

You have to count budget and scale of the game before giving it a AAA tag. Ori is fantastic game but will you call it AAA? Same goes for Cuphead. I love Nier but it's not AAA.  

 

No point in comparing with CD Red. They're one of a kind special devs. Absolutely no publisher will follow their model. So no point in comparing. Games like Witcher 3 and Devs like CD Red are rare in this industry. 

 

 

AAA talks about production value and not budget. Every part of nier from combat mechanics to soundtrack to story screams AAA.

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7 minutes ago, adity said:

AAA talks about production value and not budget. Every part of nier from combat mechanics to soundtrack to story screams AAA.

 

Ori soundtrack is also fantastic like Nier and story is also quite good, backed with fantastic gameplay and IP is owned by MS. Now will you call Ori a AAA franchise? 

 

Will you call Cuphead AAA?  Art style and graphics are way better and unique than most AAA games and again it's published by MS.  

 

AAA definition is different for everyone I guess. 

Edited by WhiteWolf

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3 minutes ago, WhiteWolf said:

 

Ori soundtrack is also fantastic like Nier and story is also quite good, backed with fantastic gameplay and IP is owned by MS. Now will you call Ori a AAA franchise? 

 

Will you call Cuphead AAA?  Art style and graphics are way better and unique than most AAA games and again it's published by MS.  

 

AAA definition is different for everyone I guess. 

Don't digress. The discussion isn't about what is AAA and what is not. It is about MTs in AAA. Roun is saying that several AAA titles have been made without obnoxious MTs. What do you want to say about that? 

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16 minutes ago, adity said:

AAA talks about production value and not budget. Every part of nier from combat mechanics to soundtrack to story screams AAA.

 

Yeah Nier A, Yakuza 0, HZD, BotW, Persona 5, Splatoon 2 (with its constant free content updates), Resi 7, Super Mario Odyssey, Gran Turismo S, Wolfenstein 2, they're all AAA games with excellent production values coming from top publishing houses, and none of them have this loot crate bullshit. Which is why I don't believe for 2 seconds that Pubs are going bankrupt and gambling is the only way to save them. They do it because they can, not because they need to.

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1 minute ago, CarbonCore said:

 

Yeah Nier A, Yakuza 0, HZD, BotW, Persona 5, Splatoon 2 (with its constant free contents), Resi 7, Super Mario Odyssey, Gran Turismo S, Wolfenstein 2, they're all AAA games with excellent production values coming from top publishing houses, and none of them have this loot crate bullshit. Which is why I don't believe for 2 seconds that Pubs are going bankrupt and gambling is the only way to save them. They do it because they can, not because they need to.

You hit the nail on the head. There is no reason to belive MTs are necessary when dozen other devs are releasing top notch games without them. 

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2 hours ago, Joe Cool said:

 

The cost of production has gone way high to continue to sell AAA video games at $60. That's the sole reason season passes and MTs have come in.

Publishers need to follow cd projekt(based on poland) model move to low cost countries like Poland,India,china and start producing games at lower cost

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All those games are single players games and it is understandable not to include MTs as most of them have DLCs anyway. 

 

It's going to be MTs or season pass, and I'd happily choose MTs since it saves me the money on a season pass. 

 

MTs shouldn't be there is the game has a season pass. That's a big no. 

 

6 minutes ago, Engineer said:

Publishers need to follow cd projekt(based on poland) model move to low cost countries like Poland,India,china and start producing games at lower cost

6

 

That's not how things work. You cannot move to countries on the fly just to make a game. And Witcher III budget was above $80M USD with 150 employees, eventually amassing to over 250 in-house staff. 1,500 people were also involved in the game's production globally. 

 

Asian countries outside Japan know jack about developing games. 

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45 minutes ago, WhiteWolf said:

Roun

 

No loot crates in UC huh? Looks like you haven't played UC games properly :P

 

 

You have to count budget and scale of the game before giving it a AAA tag. Ori is fantastic game but will you call it AAA? Same goes for Cuphead. I love Nier but it's not AAA.  Witcher 3 is definitely AAA coz scale and budget of that game is bigger than most AAA RPG games you see from studios like Bethesda and Bioware. 

 

 

And No point in comparing with CD Red. They're one of a kind special devs. Absolutely no publisher will follow their model. So no point in comparing. Games like Witcher 3 and Devs like CD Red are rare in this industry. 

 

 

 

Does Uncharted have loot crates in the SP? That is the portion I care about, and what UC is known for. Don't care about optional Uncharted MP.

 

Also, most of the "Production Costs" are not actually cost to produce the game, but marketing costs. Right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see Shadow of War Trailers being played in theaters before movie starts, being advertised on buses and bus and railway stations, hoardings on very premium locations (Heart of London) etc.in UK/US. It was very common when I was in UK. All of these are what take up an enormous chunk of the budget. All of these are mainly for these companies to get impulse purchases from kids and casuals, because they know the game is going to be forgotten by next month and discounted to the ground by the time Steam Winter Sale (Summer sale at most) rolls around. It's the Publisher's financial dept. job to control these expenses.

 

The Youtuber is right in what he says. We don't have to support the inefficiency of the game developer/publisher. A good product speaks for itself. It doesn't need these gimmicky things (again see quality like Nier, Persona 5, Witcher etc. which did just fine based on the normal marketing of Youtube vids and E3)

 

And in the first place, what numbers have been released that show the Production costs are too high in the first place? All I see here are random Internet fanboys claiming this fact without proof to defend the game.

Edited by roun90

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Companies dont "Need" loot crates. But if people are still gonna give them money anyway. Why exactly should they say no to free money?

 

34 minutes ago, Engineer said:

 

Publishers need to follow cd projekt(based on poland) model move to low cost countries like Poland,India,china and start producing games at lower cost

 

Publishers already do this.

Edited by Shadoken

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This is what happens when a studio is controlled by a corporation that needs to satisfy their shareholders and partners financially. Creative work always suffers when the work is being controlled by money. It happens with movies, tele-shows and games are no different. 

 

@Zodak , dude, don't be so naive or maybe argue for the sake of argument. MTs in a single player game is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. The excuse of increasing production costs is bullcrap. They go big on games and to get that cash back, add these kind of greedy ways to break even. 

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38 minutes ago, Joe Cool said:

All those games are single players games and it is understandable not to include MTs as most of them have DLCs any

 

Splatoon and GTS are primarily multiplayer games. And half those games don't have paid DLC. 

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