The Coronavirus Thread Part 2

[Snake]

7 minutes ago, Big Boss said:

Shaped as V. Hmmm.

meaning?

[Big Boss]

4 minutes ago, Snake said:

meaning?

V for Vendetta.

[Snake]

18 minutes ago, KunjanPSD said:

Because 850 for Covidshield is from the privately procured quota while Covaxin must either be for 45+ or being offered at a subsided price from the state quota.

Covaxin batch belonging to the private quota costs 1450-1500.

 

When I booked the appointment it didnt give me a price, how much is it for Covishield??

 

Also how do they take payment, online/Gpay or cash?

[KunjanPSD]

2 minutes ago, Snake said:

 

When I booked the appointment it didnt give me a price, how much is it for Covishield??

 

Also how do they take payment, online/Gpay or cash?

If the price was not mentioned then it's gonna be free.

Payment method depends on the centre, usually they have every facility, card/cash/UPI.

 

 

[PS Fan]

We need more such people. God bless them all.

 

[PS Fan]

1 hour ago, Bhpian Bali said:

Yeh lo ji. Gola gaya aur yeh hydra jaisa kuch aa gaya

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it countinues to spread like this then we will go back to stone ages

 

[PS Fan]

2 hours ago, Snake said:

Was finally able to get a vaccination appointment for my mom. They are giving covishield.

 

I'm really concerned about the crowding, so apart from the double masking what other measures should we take as I'll be accompanying her

Double masking N99 mask and surgical mask on top of it and headcover plus face shield. Headcover coz virus can get stuck in your hair and can enter your eyes and ears when you wash your hair?

 

 

 And ofcourse Sanitizer nd all. 

 

 

My friend went wearing ppe suit and his  parents were in ppe suit as well with tiny hole he made on left arm for vaccine lol. He had triple masking and bought 3m branded masks lol. I think that was bit too much. 

 

This one he bought

 

https://www.amazon.in/dp/B08CB4SMQD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_84VE84P8P4RH4KZGVF8Y?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

Lol 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by WhiteWolf

[Walker]

Situation bleak here too

 

 

[rushab oswal]

??

 

 

 

[Bhpian Bali]

@Big Boss lot more covaxin sites have been added as per the google grp (now telegram group) you shared. 

 

 

And my friend is a lot lot better now after a good night's sleep.. 

[Bird Bird Bird]

12 hours ago, Banz said:

 

It is one of the reasons why healthcare in the usa is so expensive. People sue over the smallest things. Every thing is the business' (or in this case, doctor's) liabilty. There is also an arms race between insurance companies and doctors. Insurance companies want to pay as little as possible, so doctors try to inflate bills as much as they can. There is also added costs of hospitals for hiring accountants, lawyers, etc. Too much admin overhead costs and too little going into the actual healthcare (salries of doctors, nurses, medical equipment).

 

Also just the idea of suing doctors in consumer courts is so wrong. Patients aren't customers.

 

12 hours ago, blitzkreiig said:

So true....It's so short sighted to sue just because you can.

 

12 hours ago, Banz said:

 

Doctors shouldn't even be considered under the Consumer Protection Act. They shouldn't be treated like businesses. One consequence of this (as I've learnt after a talk to a doctor) is that they may see their own profession as a business and patients as customers.

 

10 hours ago, Banz said:

 

You need recourse of course. Just not in a consumer court. That's for cases when you are cheated when buying particular product or service. If doctors commit criminal negligience, that should be subject to criminal proceedings.

Btw, you can't sue government hospital doctors in a consumer court.

 

 

I don't agree that doctors shouldn't be sued. 

 

Indian doctors are primarily anecdotal practioners, not evidence based. Just some days ago, came across a prescription for a suspected COVID patient written by a very senior doctor from Delhi (MD, FRCP, with 100s of positive reviews on Google, 4.6 rating) with 21 medicines - 3 pain killers, 4 antibiotics, steroids (with wrong dose), fabiflu (with wrong dose) etc !  The patient just had fever and dry cough for 2 days. 

 

I've seen similar prescriptions with extremely well regarded doctors (KGMC HoDs, PGI HoDs), with different drugs from the same class, one given in the morning, one in the evening, ensuring all medical reps are satisfied, they get their commissions, and the patient gets f**ked. 

 

In rural areas, such quackery is at a different level. When I was in Chhattisgarh in rural townships, we were primarily treating pediatric and OBGN cases. Would regularly see kids as small as 6 months coming to us after getting Ceftriaxone injections, for things which don't even need antibiotics. 

 

Sadly quite a huge chunk of doctors will fall into these  buckets, and the current crop of prescriptions bear testimony to it (illogical drugs are given. Saw a prescription yesterday given to a work colleague with COVID+ diagnosis - HCQ + Oseltamivir). 

 

Many doctors don't update themselves with latest protocols, developments etc. Many are in it just for the money (you guys just have seen many many instances of doctors black marketing RemD and other critical drugs). 

 

Medical negligence should be grounds for litigation. And it already is. Not in consumer court. Most cases go through a special bench of doctors in the respective state council where patient petitions are filed (unless criminal cases come up). 

 

While the costs will go up (most doctors anyway should have indemnity insurance, and IMA also helps in such cases), patients have to be protected at any cost. Without a doubt many patients will try to abuse such systems, but that is why extensive documentation of all discussions, treatments etc need to be maintained. I've done many such webinars for multiple groups of doctors since malpractice complaints are on the rise in the sector I work in (much of it is patient abusing the system, but documentation is key in such cases).  

 

With the cost of treatment rising (heck, many a times a consultation costs 2000-5000 INR; treating patients as piggy bank), Medico-legal challenges are here to stay, and doctors need to be updated on protocols, and also need to learn the importance of documentation. 

[Big Boss]

5 minutes ago, Bhpian Bali said:

@Big Boss lot more covaxin sites have been added as per the google grp (now telegram group) you shared. 

 

 

And my friend is a lot lot better now after a good night's sleep.. 

Yup. All booked fast. Aundh hospital is saying they don't have stocks despite people able to book slots. I think fraud is happening. 

[Bhpian Bali]

9 minutes ago, Big Boss said:

Yup. All booked fast. Aundh hospital is saying they don't have stocks despite people able to book slots. I think fraud is happening. 

 

Same thing is happening at those other pcmc covaxin centers?

[silica]

@Big Boss I was vaccinated using Covishield; the only side effect i had was a parched throat for a day. My help (56 yo old with diabetes) had no side effects.

Edited May 5, 2021 by silica

[blitzkreiig]

18 minutes ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

 

 

 

 

I don't agree that doctors shouldn't be sued. 

 

Indian doctors are primarily anecdotal practioners, not evidence based. Just some days ago, came across a prescription for a suspected COVID patient written by a very senior doctor from Delhi (MD, FRCP, with 100s of positive reviews on Google, 4.6 rating) with 21 medicines - 3 pain killers, 4 antibiotics, steroids (with wrong dose), fabiflu (with wrong dose) etc !  The patient just had fever and dry cough for 2 days. 

 

I've seen similar prescriptions with extremely well regarded doctors (KGMC HoDs, PGI HoDs), with different drugs from the same class, one given in the morning, one in the evening, ensuring all medical reps are satisfied, they get their commissions, and the patient gets f**ked. 

 

In rural areas, such quackery is at a different level. When I was in Chhattisgarh in rural townships, we were primarily treating pediatric and OBGN cases. Would regularly see kids as small as 6 months coming to us after getting Ceftriaxone injections, for things which don't even need antibiotics. 

 

Sadly quite a huge chunk of doctors will fall into these  buckets, and the current crop of prescriptions bear testimony to it (illogical drugs are given. Saw a prescription yesterday given to a work colleague with COVID+ diagnosis - HCQ + Oseltamivir). 

 

Many doctors don't update themselves with latest protocols, developments etc. Many are in it just for the money (you guys just have seen many many instances of doctors black marketing RemD and other critical drugs). 

 

Medical negligence should be grounds for litigation. And it already is. Not in consumer court. Most cases go through a special bench of doctors in the respective state council where patient petitions are filed (unless criminal cases come up). 

 

While the costs will go up (most doctors anyway should have indemnity insurance, and IMA also helps in such cases), patients have to be protected at any cost. Without a doubt many patients will try to abuse such systems, but that is why extensive documentation of all discussions, treatments etc need to be maintained. I've done many such webinars for multiple groups of doctors since malpractice complaints are on the rise in the sector I work in (much of it is patient abusing the system, but documentation is key in such cases).  

 

With the cost of treatment rising (heck, many a times a consultation costs 2000-5000 INR; treating patients as piggy bank), Medico-legal challenges are here to stay, and doctors need to be updated on protocols, and also need to learn the importance of documentation. 

 

See the thing is there's no one protocol for any disease, you can treat fever plus cough in n number of ways. I'm not saying that every one of those will be right for the patient but most will be justifiable medically. That is why i posted earlier that medicine is not an exact science. Also in India, a better doctor is one which prescribes multiple medicines. My own in-laws criticised me for not starting steroid for them earlier itself in covid, which by the way should never be done. Then they went doctor shopping and finally landed one who was ready to prescribe them everything 

Anyway my point is, rampant suing just because they 'feel' the treatment was inadequate doesn't achieve anything. Litigation should be restricted to medical negligence cases or else it'll be the patients themselves bearing the brunt of repeated lawsuits.

[Big Boss]

20 minutes ago, Bhpian Bali said:

 

Same thing is happening at those other pcmc covaxin centers?

No. Those are fine. New Jijamata is great. I will wait for few more days to see how situation of covaxin clears up.

[Bird Bird Bird]

Just now, blitzkreiig said:

 

See the thing is there's no one protocol for any disease, you can treat fever plus cough in n number of ways. I'm not saying that every one of those will be right for the patient but most will be justifiable medically. That is why i posted earlier that medicine is not an exact science. Also in India, a better doctor is one which prescribes multiple medicines. My own in-laws criticised me for not starting steroid for them earlier itself in covid, which by the way should never be done. Then they went doctor shopping and finally landed one who was ready to prescribe them everything 

Anyway my point is, rampant suing just because they 'feel' the treatment was inadequate doesn't achieve anything. Litigation should be restricted to medical negligence cases or else it'll be the patients themselves bearing the brunt of repeated lawsuits.

 

I agree, but a baseline protocol can be followed for most diseases. By way of clinical symptoms and signs, one can decide going in a particular direction. Protocol does not mean a fixed chart. It means a flexible flow diagram, which guides you in the right direction.

 

Also agree that the typical mentality is that the one prescribing 21 medicines is better than one prescribing 2. Early use of steroid in COVID is rampant unfortunately. See a lot of prescriptions where it's given in mild cases, with almost no symptoms and negligibly raised biomarkers. That's why the need to be evidence based, updated and protocol-ish. I'm sure you'll agree that many cases would have landed into immune suppression, secondary pneumonia etc due to steroid misuse. 

 

Whether we like it or not, ML cases will be on the rise. It's not in our hands. What we can do it be extremely vigilant and document every damn thing, preferably stored over a cloud so that it's accessible to you as well in time of crisis. 

[silica]

Hey, the company I work for is looking to purchase and donate Oxygen concentrators to hospitals in cities and rural areas. Please let me know if you guys can help by providing contact details of companies from whom we can purchase. 

 

The person in charge has already contacted the distributor for Yuwell and resellers for Philips in a few cities; they do not have stock. We were able to procure only two yesterday with the help of certain government officials. We have contacted our clients abroad and are pushing them to either purchase them for India or provide us with details of the companies from whom we can purchase.

[Bird Bird Bird]

Just now, silica said:

Hey, the company I work for is looking to purchase and donate Oxygen concentrators to hospitals in cities and rural areas. Please let me know if you guys can help by providing contact details of companies from whom we can purchase. 

 

The person in charge has already contacted the distributor for Yuwell and resellers for Philips in a few cities; they do not have stock. We were able to procure only two yesterday with the help of certain government officials. We have contacted our clients abroad and are pushing them to either purchase them for India or provide us with details of the companies from whom we can purchase.

 

BPL had some stocks as our company is also looking to place concentrators in key cities. Very limited though. We got 2 from Philips yesterday, looking for many more. 

Best is if someone abroad can send it in your or company's name. We are also trying this route. 

[blitzkreiig]

3 minutes ago, Bird Bird Bird said:

 

I agree, but a baseline protocol can be followed for most diseases. By way of clinical symptoms and signs, one can decide going in a particular direction. Protocol does not mean a fixed chart. It means a flexible flow diagram, which guides you in the right direction.

 

Also agree that the typical mentality is that the one prescribing 21 medicines is better than one prescribing 2. Early use of steroid in COVID is rampant unfortunately. See a lot of prescriptions where it's given in mild cases, with almost no symptoms and negligibly raised biomarkers. That's why the need to be evidence based, updated and protocol-ish. I'm sure you'll agree that many cases would have landed into immune suppression, secondary pneumonia etc due to steroid misuse. 

 

Whether we like it or not, ML cases will be on the rise. It's not in our hands. What we can do it be extremely vigilant and document every damn thing, preferably stored over a cloud so that it's accessible to you as well in time of crisis. 

 

Except TB and at times Malaria, i haven't seen any protocol being followed in India. Heck even for covid, central institutes have a different protocol than states and what actually is happening on the ground level is another story in itself.